Times like these

[Echolipse]

With a heavy heart I must ask, how many shootings have we had in the last few weeks?

 

[John S]

That is because of the gun culture in this country. Yet many people believe that we need MORE of them - in schools, churches, when shopping, everywhere - and what is even sadder, a vast majority of these people also claim to believe in Jesus Christ - the same Jesus Christ who never owned or used a weapon and NEVER advocated violence under any circumstance - even when someone punches you in the face.

 

[Echolipse]

I am one of those people who believe we need more guns. My reasoning is, is that where guns are not allowed, these shootings occur more frequently, rather than vice versa. I own two firearms, one which is always with me and the other my dad has possession of as his backup weapon.

From what I've noticed is that the majority of these mass shootings are done by teenagers who have inappropriate access to firearms. As I was growing up, my father always kept his duty weapons locked away, which was responsible of him.

I can understand your reasoning though. While Christ did not carry a weapon, what do you make of Ezekiel 33:6 or Luke 22:36?

Ezekiel 33:6 - But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.

Luke 22:36 - Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.

IMO, Christ did advocate protecting oneself and family. This goes along the same lines as saying someone breaks into your house and it's the difference of either letting the burglary rampage your house and possibly killing your family or using a firearm or whatever weapon you have to protect what you have.

Also from what I'm getting from your post is that you're most or less saying that what Police and Law Enforcement personnel do go against what the bible says.

 

[John S]

Unfortunately, law enforcement and the military need weapons - but you don't.

The man and wife shot 2 policemen. THEY were armed and they didn't stand a chance.

When a person punches you on the left side of your face, Jesus told us to
A. Shoot the other person
B. Fight back
C. Run away
D. Cry
E. Let him punch you on the right side of your face.

When someone forces you to walk a mile, Jesus told us to
A. Shoot him
B. Beg to be let go
C. Fight back
D. Cry
E. Offer to walk a second mile.

When someone takes your "coat", Jesus told us to
A. Shoot him
B. Fight him
C. Run away
D. Cry
E. Give him your "shirt"

In regards to your enemy. Jesus told us to
A. Shoot them
B. Fight with them
C. Prohibit them from going to the same places that you go
D. Feel anger towards them
E. Love them.

If people answer E to each of these questions, then they are ALSO a liberal, like Jesus Christ.

 

[ebedmelech]

I see the point. However, does this belong here OR in the "Current Affairs" section?

Having said that owning firearms is a personal choice. I also own a couple...but as I said it's a personal choice.

Saints come down on both sides of this issue. For me personally, taking of the life of another is a LAST RESORT because LIFE is given by God.

We know war is a reality, and one of God's priorites when He chose Israel was to draft an army, so war is something completley different from personal protection in a town, city, or municipality.

 

[Echolipse]

I agree with E on all of them, but here's the thing, none of them are putting your life in danger.

I consider myself Independent. There are things which I could be considered liberal at and others I could be considered conservative.

The average response time for LE is about 15min. If someone's sole intent is to hurt my family when they break in, we will be dead within 2min of that person gaining entry into the house. If they know what they're doing, the residing family wouldn't even know someone is in their house or until it's too late. Thus the end result is a home invasion and multi-murder. It's only someone's guess when the deceased family would be discovered.

 

[Echolipse]

Yes and no ebedmelech, because this does relate to End-times prophecy.

Yes, I agree on the LAST RESORT option.

I also agree when it comes to war vs personal protection. But I would rather carry a firearm in case someone decides to walk through a mall and starts shooting up the place. Carrying a firearm is for emergency-a-life-or-lives-protection.

 

[ebedmelech]

Yes and no ebedmelech, because this does relate to End-times prophecy.

Yes, I agree on the LAST RESORT option.

I also agree when it comes to war vs personal protection. But I would rather carry a firearm in case someone decides to walk through a mall and starts shooting up the place. Carrying a firearm is for emergency-a-life-or-lives-protection.

I won't argue that point. I will say this...these events are so separated and so few...that I won't go "pro or con".

When I see Paul avoiding violent confrontation everywhere he went for the sake of the gospel, it tells me that I should do the same...and Paul knew wha was confronting Him. He elected to return to Jerusalem KNOWING many wanted to kill him, and he never armed himself.

If I believe the Holy Spirit is moving me to carry a firearm, I'll do that. So far, He hasn't moved me that way.

 

[ebedmelech]

Unfortunately, law enforcement and the military need weapons - but you don't.

The man and wife shot 2 policemen. THEY were armed and they didn't stand a chance.

When a person punches you on the left side of your face, Jesus told us to
A. Shoot the other person
B. Fight back
C. Run away
D. Cry
E. Let him punch you on the right side of your face.

When someone forces you to walk a mile, Jesus told us to
A. Shoot him
B. Beg to be let go
C. Fight back
D. Cry
E. Offer to walk a second mile.

When someone takes your "coat", Jesus told us to
A. Shoot him
B. Fight him
C. Run away
D. Cry
E. Give him your "shirt"

In regards to your enemy. Jesus told us to
A. Shoot them
B. Fight with them
C. Prohibit them from going to the same places that you go
D. Feel anger towards them
E. Love them.

If people answer E to each of these questions, then they are ALSO a liberal, like Jesus Christ.

I don't think you have a proper context here. All one has to do, is watch the Jesus and the apostles walk through the gospels and in Acts.

You have to understand what the Lord is saying here...because until Jesus time to go to the cross came, everytime he was confronted by the Jews trying to arrest Him...he escaped, and did not allow Himself to be taken. Following your logic, Jesus shoud have surrendered...He didn't.

That in itself should tell you you're not looking at this in the proper context of what it is.

 

[Echolipse]

I won't argue that point. I will say this...these events are so separated and so few...that I won't go "pro or con".

When I see Paul avoiding violent confrontation everywhere he went for the sake of the gospel, it tells me that I should do the same...and Paul knew wha was confronting Him. He elected to return to Jerusalem KNOWING many wanted to kill him, and he never armed himself.

If I believe the Holy Spirit is moving me to carry a firearm, I'll do that. So far, He hasn't moved me that way.

I understand and I agree. There are times when the Holy Spirit prompts me not to carry, other times it's part of my clothing.

 

[Echolipse]

Now to tie this into Eschatology. When I first starting watching everything and studying the prophecies I noticed that there were shooting rampages (on average) about once every couple months. From what I've seen, it's steadily increased. I do include the incidents where police are involved of the lethal shootings at the beginning and not when they're involved after arriving.

It just makes me wonder at what frequency they will be occurring near the end of the tribulation.