Time to rebel against the clergy (a call to all)

[AskTheFamily]

And, as you know, I argue that direct proof is in how/if God is made a reality in the believers. That's as direct connection to God as one can get.

The direct connection and reality that by which we are connected, to me, is the leader and guide, and he is the proof and manifest proof, the light, the way, the path, the means, and is the star in the darkness, and is coupled with always twelve other Lions with him, who are the True Kings to be obeyed.

 

[dlamberth]

The direct connection and reality that by which we are connected, to me, is the leader and guide, and he is the proof and manifest proof, the light, the way, the path, the means, and is the star in the darkness, and is coupled with always twelve other Lions with him, who are the True Kings to be obeyed.

If a person's religion does teach them to have God as their reality, with all of the lessons of becoming a more human, Human Being that comes along with what that means, it speaks volumes of the truth or lack of, of that religion.

 

[AskTheFamily]

If a person's religion does teach them to have God as their reality, with all of the lessons of becoming a more human, Human Being that comes along with what that means, it speaks volumes of the truth or lack of, of that religion.

It doesn't speak much if we define what it means to be human by our desires, then judge by our desires, and do away with the beautiful names of God that are the appointed leaders and Kings, it's easy that way to see the people of the right path as not being on the true nature and it's easy to see evil people that define reality by conjecture as good because we are incline to them and the idols that surround us.

Indeed God as a reality means what? It means you know there is a being that ought to be valued with all your heart and soul like no other being. You strive to know that being and you love that being and terrified at being in the distant evil place away from him, to the extent you fear following leaders with no proof from God as you don't wish to attribute God what you do not know nor rely on other then God and his guidance knowing fully we he will guide you by the means he knows will guide you and you love him to the extent you fear not being guaranteed guidance, to the extent you search for the proof of God and way to God with relentless effort.

And compassion and love for his creation, that comes us without saying.

 

[dlamberth]

Indeed God as a reality means what?

It mean's that everywhere one looks, there God is with the result that a person will than treat every person they meet with Love, Compassion and Service because they are seeing God in others.

 

[dlamberth]

It doesn't speak much if we define what it means to be human by our desires,

Your looking at it backwards. Let God speak to us through our souls. That's a whole different perspective than from our ego desires.

 

[AskTheFamily]

It mean's that everywhere one looks, there God is with the result that a person will than treat every person they meet with Love, Compassion and Service because they are seeing God in others.

That is an implication, but as you know God is still much more, then everyone combined, and so while we have to appreciate God's value and light and love in everyone, it's much more, and the perfection of it is to fear the darkening of his light both in ourselves and to society to the extent we resolve ourselves to protect the light and strive to spread it appreciating it's beauty.

 

[AskTheFamily]

Your looking at it backwards. Let God speak to us through our souls. That's a whole different perspective than from our ego desires.

I think we agree, but have different results?

 

[dlamberth]

That is an implication, but as you know God is still much more, then everyone combined,

That's all true. But it still comes down to us making God our reality in life and asking "How do we do that?". That's the bottom line.

 

[AskTheFamily]

That's all true. But it still comes down to us making God our reality in life and asking "How do we do that?". That's the bottom line.

You are right. We agree. So why do we have different results?

 

[dlamberth]

I think we agree, but have different results?

What are the results you see when we listen to God speaking through our souls?

 

[AskTheFamily]

What are the results you see when we listen to God speaking through our souls?

I see humans loving God a lot and loving good but I seem them equating petty things with that, I seem them loving the path to God but also loving the path to destruction, I see them loving leaders of God but only to equate them with leaders chosen by humans with no proof from God and I seem them mixing unclean streams with pure streams, to the extent devils and Angels become non-distinguishable, till death takes them, they will be confused, and when the Angels of light punish them for evil, they will they take side of the devils who will seem more compassionate and loving as they will give them refuge in the world between this world and the next world.

I see confusion, where they just pick what they want to stick to from the light, and pick what they want to abandon of it, and use whatever of the falsehood that suits them, and abandon whatever of the truth that is against their desires.

 

[cloudyday2]

I see confusion, where they just pick what they want to stick to from the light, and pick what they want to abandon of it, and use whatever of the falsehood that suits them, and abandon whatever of the truth that is against their desires.

If God exists and cares about us, I have wondered about proving or disproving various religious ideas by our personal experiences. One of the songs prior to communion in the Orthodox church I used to attend included the phrase "oh taste and see how good the Lord is".

The problem with this experimental approach is that psychological issues can shape our experiences. You mentioned having schizophrenia. I briefly had some type of psychosis a few years ago. Also there are issues like confirmation bias that confuse the experiences of psychologically normal people.

Just some random thoughts I guess.

 

[dlamberth]

I see humans loving God a lot and loving good but I seem them equating petty things with that, I seem them loving the path to God but also loving the path to destruction, I see them loving leaders of God but only to equate them with leaders chosen by humans with no proof from God and I seem them mixing unclean streams with pure streams, to the extent devils and Angels become non-distinguishable, till death takes them, they will be confused, and when the Angels of light punish them for evil, they will they take side of the devils who will seem more compassionate and loving as they will give them refuge in the world between this world and the next world.

I see confusion, where they just pick what they want to stick to from the light, and pick what they want to abandon of it, and use whatever of the falsehood that suits them, and abandon whatever of the truth that is against their desires.

And compared to seeing through our ego? What results to you see there?

 

[AskTheFamily]

I don't actually know what you mean by the ego.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Without going too far back, we had the red scare and the threat of "godless commies".
Today, I see polls consistently indicating people think atheists are the least trustworthy group of people.
It's why politicians flaunt their religion and non-religious candidates get smeared.
It's why people give their life savings to prosperity gospel preachers.

We see things a bit differently from each other. The "godless commies" did actually murder millions of their own people so the scare seems somewhat justifiable in that regard. I do not equate belief in a god with religiosity anymore than I equate belief in the existence of planets and stars with astrology. Polls are not necessarily as trustworthy as the atheists that the polls claim people find untrustworthy. IMO the only atheists one can assume are untrustworthy are those that pretend they are not atheists in order to gain political support from theists. As for smearing, I see no reason to believe that politicians that claim to be atheists get smeared more as political candidates than those that claim to be theists. And greed, not belief in God or even belief in religion is the main reason people can be conned into giving their life savings to any kind of preachers of prosperity whether religious or purely secular.

 

[grasping the after wind]

What I see is that people are inherently good. It's our ego's that get into the way. I don't know if I'm able to explain soul other than there is no separation from the source of All and our innermost being.

I cannot see how one could conclude that people are innately good. Does a child act as if he/she does not think that the most important being in the universe is not him or herself? We may have a different definition of good but if good means benevolent then being self centered would not fit the description. I think people wish to be seen as good and assume that that wish for status among one's peers as being good is de facto goodness.
I'm afraid that your explanation of soul leaves me less the wiser on what you meant than I was before you explained it to me. If there is "no separation from the source of All and our innermost being" I would have to assume that individuality is an illusion and that the idea of soul has no meaning other than one has no individual being but partakes of a collective being that one can call soul if one has no proclivity for precision. That being the case one's innermost being is actually not one's but the collective's innermost being. Either that or our innermost being is somehow intrinsically twined with the source of a popular detergent.

 

[TheOldWays]

Could you show us how you came to that conclusion?

hello.

each person's spiritual path is unique to them. while a mentor or guide can be helpful, no one is equipped to discern another's spiritual path for them. all a person in a 'leadership' role can do is guide them towards either an external idea of god, or what the 'leader's' perceived spiritual path is, which would lead to bondage to an egregore.

 

[TheOldWays]

But we definitely needed human leadership, at spiritual personal level, at community religion level, and even one at world political level.

if one wants to be intertwined with false gods and idols, then they are welcome to concern themselves with worldly things like a religious community and politics. it isn't a bad thing. it's fairly common and can be natural for humans to seek that. but it doesn't lead towards discovery of god and one's true purpose of co-creating with god from what I have found.

 

[grasping the after wind]

hello.

each person's spiritual path is unique to them. while a mentor or guide can be helpful, no one is equipped to discern another's spiritual path for them. all a person in a 'leadership' role can do is guide them towards either an external idea of god, or what the 'leader's' perceived spiritual path is, which would lead to bondage to an egregore.

OK, I can see how your basic assumptions would lead you to the conclusion that you reached. Thank you for helping me understand your thought process.

 

[dlamberth]

I cannot see how one could conclude that people are innately good. Does a child act as if he/she does not think that the most important being in the universe is not him or herself?

I think this begs the question: How should a good child act?