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Time, Creation and the Big Bang

Discussion in 'Creation & Theistic Evolution' started by Palmfever, Dec 6, 2019.

  1. Palmfever

    Palmfever New Member

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    The details of how God created this universe, I will never understand. He Did. To some the answer to that question is a life long pursuit, one I enjoy watching and reading about. Keep it up. To me however, the more important question is why. While I am curious about, and amazed by His work, why? The brilliant and dismissive may seek no deeper meaning, the how is profoundly engaging. Fair enough, let’s leave them to it. Why, and for what purpose is the realm of philosophers.

    Yet, we can’t get something from nothing. We may focus on what we see, and search for the answer in the material itself, but it came from somewhere, something, some It. With only the naked eye, the grandeur of the heavens, the plants, the sea, the plethora of life., evokes a sense of wonder. Some desire to reverse engineer, others desire to see beyond visible and cogent creation for, “All of creation speaks of a creator.” And there, beyond physics, is faith. Not opposed to knowledge, rather giving credit to the energy, the source which precedes the energy, mass and matter occupying our space, The visible and dark.

    It is believed that time, or the measurement of events in the physical universe began some 15 billion years ago with an advent referred to as the “Big Bang”. Since science is the study of creation, it cannot address what existed prior to the natural universe. Stephen Hawking states in his lecture, “The beginning of time”, that the solar system can be extrapolated far beyond the four thousand and four years BC, suggested in the book of Genesis.

    The book of Genesis does not state that creation began 4004 BC.

    Genesis 1 is as follows:

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day

    6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

    9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

    14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

    If we look at verses 14 – 18, we see that the sun/stars and earths moon were created on the 4th day. This would have the first 24 hour solar day occurring on day five. Prior to this events were in pre-solar/earth time not our current 24 hour days. We also find the function of the sun; “And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years.”

    Day: yôwm, yome; from an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figurative (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverb):—age, always, chronicals, continually(-ance), daily, ((birth-), each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), elder, × end, evening, (for) ever(-lasting, -more), × full, life, as (so) long as (… live), (even) now, old, outlived, perpetually, presently, remaineth, × required, season, × since, space, then, (process of) time, as at other times, in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), × whole ( age), (full) year(-ly), younger.

    This word seems to mean a period of time, an age since 24 hour days did not yet exist.

    Light: ôwr, ore; from H215; illumination or (concrete) luminary (in every sense, including lightning, happiness, etc.):—bright, clear, day, light (-ning), morning, sun.

    This word explains itself. Things were made clear, illuminated.

    Waters: mayim, mah’-yim; dual of a primitive noun (but used in a singular sense); water; figuratively, juice; by euphemism, urine, semen:— [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], wasting, water(-ing, (-course, -flood, -spring)).

    This word could describe liquid gas…

    Firmament: râqîyaʻ, raw-kee’-ah; from H7554; properly, an expanse, i.e. the firmament or (apparently) visible arch of the sky:—firmament.

    This word seems to describe space…

    The difficulty in understanding the Genesis creation account lies in the multi usages of some of the words. The writer is not so concerned with how God did it, simply that He did. It is a brief preamble for the introduction of Gods relationship with man, past, present and future. The light before the creation of stars may be explained as follows:

    1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

    John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

    I am not concerned with how God did it, leave that for scientists to speculate, analyze, theorize and reverse engineer if they can. I'm just grateful that He did.

    Given limitless “Time”, men may understand the principles and formula God applied during the process of creation, that would be interesting, it is not essential however for our purpose of having a relationship with our Creator.

    Genesis 11:9 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

    2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is patient and tolerant to us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
     
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  2. -57

    -57 Well-Known Member

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    "for seasons, and for days, and years."...It does't make much sense to replace days with ages in this instance. Why would God want the people to look at the sky and mark off ages? Seasons makes sense in light of when to plant and when to harvest. Years makes sense when one wants to keep tract of how old something is. Days should go with out saying. For example, 28 days between new moons. All 3 terms are relevant to everyday life....why would God want them to count the ages? We know how long a day is as well as a season and a year....but we don't know how long a age is.
     
  3. Palmfever

    Palmfever New Member

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    What I'm saying is: There was no sun until the forth day. So the first solar day would be the fifth. God is Light. Christ is the light of the world. So I'm thinking before the sun and moon, God provided the light prior to then. Personally He could have made it in literal days or ages until day five. I can't argue either way, and it does not really matter as far as salvation. I feel it is however a legitimate concept since the word day can be interpreted several ways. And... it also states, they were made for purpose of determining days and seasons. So, however one feels about it is fine with me. Just interesting to contemplate. I do tend to lean more toward it being a longer period of time. I had some get angry with the concept. I think part of their one mans response was; "It's the one thing Christians have, (literal days) we should not give this up to the world". Pretty weak argument. Lot of emotion, not to thoughtful.
    That was a loose paraphrase. He was/is a good guy.
    God Bless
     
  4. -57

    -57 Well-Known Member

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    Exo 20:8Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God, on which you must not do any work—neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant or livestock, nor the foreigner within your gates. 11For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth and the sea and all that is in them, but on the seventh day He rested. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy.

    It doesn't say in 3 ages and 3 days.
     
  5. MrsFoundit

    MrsFoundit Active Member

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    Unless why, and for what purpose can be understood through seeking God.

    Who are the lights for, who needs them in order to measure time ? Does God require them in order to mark 24 hours in time, or were they placed for humans, so that we would be able to do it ?
     
  6. Palmfever

    Palmfever New Member

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    Psalm, 33:6 By the word of the Lord were the heavens made, and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth... 9, For He spoke and it was done,He commanded and it stood fast.
    I believe we can all agree that time is a construct of creation. God is eternal and was living in eternity before and during creation. Time occurred as a result of creation and eternity is apart from time or its constraints.
    While God, made stars/our star, as a means of measurement of sidereal time based on the position between the two and the time it takes for a complete rotation. It is not uniform,
    Some steadfastly argue that a day is 24 hours yet:
    Mercury's day is; 1,408 hours
    Venus, 5,832
    Earth, about 24
    Mars 25
    Jupiter 10
    Saturn, 11
    Uranus 17
    Neptune 16
    The Sun varies. It is a surface of plasma 1 - 300 miles deep which takes approx, 24.5 hours at the equator, and about 34 at the poles.
    Is earth the center of the universe, And, what we say is the rule?
    Seasons have more to do with the tilt of earths axis than distance from the sun. There are countless suns in the universe of much greater substance with their individual length of day.

    Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

    God Bless
     
  7. MrsFoundit

    MrsFoundit Active Member

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    I cannot speak for everyone, but yes from me.
     
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