Three hundred years from now where will you be? Heaven or a utopian earth?

In the year 2319 where will you be?

  • Heaven

    Votes: 8 44.4%
  • A restored utopian earth.

    Votes: 3 16.7%
  • Both in heaven as well as on the restored utopian earth.

    Votes: 7 38.9%

  • Total voters
    18

DennisTate

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I don't think that any non believers will survive. In the end they will fight against the coming King. Only the righteous will be kept for the millennial age. I don't have time to look it up right now but these people will live long lives and have children. Since Satan is bound for these 1000 years these people will not be tempted. Some will turn from righteousness but will die young, which will be a disgraceful event in these times. In the end, Satan will be loosed and some will turn... But, no unbelievers after the tribulation IMO


If it was mostly believers who survive the tribulation.....then who is it that is given this heart of flesh vs the heart of stone?

Ezekiel 11
Ezekiel 11:19
"And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:"

Granted....there are many, many, many levels of fulfillment to this promise.....
 
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JacksBratt

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If it was mostly believers who survive the tribulation.....then who is it that is given this heart of flesh vs the heart of stone?

Ezekiel 11
Ezekiel 11:19
"And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:"

Granted....there are many, many, many levels of fulfillment to this promise.....
I'm no expert and I could be wrong. However, what non believer is going to remain? The way humans are sorted at the end of the tribulation is by that simple fact. No non believer has the right to move forward.
 
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rockytopva

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First Resurrection - Accounted worthy to live and reign with Christ 1,000 years

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. - Revelation 20:4-6

Three hundred years from now... Will we be accounted worthy to reign with Christ 1,000 years? Or we will be among the rest of the dead who lived not again until the 1,000 years were finished?
 
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DennisTate

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First Resurrection - Accounted worthy to live and reign with Christ 1,000 years

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. - Revelation 20:4-6

Three hundred years from now... Will we be accounted worthy to reign with Christ 1,000 years? Or we will be among the rest of the dead who lived not again until the 1,000 years were finished?


Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So once these verses are considered we are basically asking ourselves what does it mean to reign with Jesus?

Do the saints reign over the survivors from Great Tribulation?

There may be many, many, many more survivors than we might tend to imagine.


Zechariah 8
Zec 8:4

Thus saith the LORD of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age.
 
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DennisTate

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Heaven is not a place, its a higher level of being.

Like 3D is a higher level than 1D.

If you are in 3D, you are also in 1D. If you are in heaven, you are also on the earth.

Not sure what you mean by "the utopian earth".


I got back an exceptionally insightful reply on a similar topic that I asked permission to copy and paste here:


TIKKUN OLAM and where we will be in the year 2319?


Isaiah chapter 65 talks about the 1,000 year reign of Christ (Moshiach). We are told we will rule and reign with Christ for 1,000 years here on the earth and then there will be a new heaven and a new earth. We can compare what John tells us in Revelation with the book of Isaiah. They do believe this will take place in the year 6,000. Currently this is the year: 5,780. There are people that go by this calendar that believe we still have 220 years to go. Others believe the Church age is 2,000 years and then the Kingdom age will follow for 1,000 years. Then there will be a new Heaven and a New Earth.

We are told to pray Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on Earth as in Heaven. So the Earth is to become as Heaven already is

317722_484a1e79893e65c8d5275c8415e7fcd7.gif
 
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GenemZ

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Heaven is not a place, its a higher level of being.

I wish to jump in. What you say sounds like someones subjective concept created outside of what the Scriptures tell us.

The Bible states something quite different than what you claim..

Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”
for the first heaven and the first earth had
passed away, and there was no longer any sea."
Rev 21:1​


There is a strong differentiation between locations as far as the Word is concerned.
Only God can be in two places simultaneously. Are you saying we will become God?
 
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GenemZ

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Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So once these verses are considered we are basically asking ourselves what does it mean to reign with Jesus?

Do the saints reign over the survivors from Great Tribulation?

Not all will. Only church age saints that fully mature in Christ will qualify to reign with Him. Jesus spoke to believers and warned that many believers will take the road to destruction (of our spiritual life) which is "broad and wide."

Broad and wide? Meaning, there are many variations for choosing from. They are out there today, each designed to suit specific desires of believers who walk in the power of their own human good... Broad and wide? How many denominations and cults do we find today? They can not all be correct when so many contradict the others on the Christian way of life. The choice has become organized and "broad and wide."

In contrast to "many?" Jesus stated that only a few will persevere the pressures required to find the narrow (strict) way that leads to life. Jesus did say He came to give life, and life more abundantly. Only a few believers today are finding it. Many play their part to find acceptance and approval in some denominational program on how to act and speak... and even to act happy.

Those who find that life may not even smile when you expect them to. And, sometimes smile when you think no one should.
 
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DennisTate

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I wish to jump in. What you say sounds like someones subjective concept created outside of what the Scriptures tell us.

The Bible states something quite different than what you claim..

Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”
for the first heaven and the first earth had
passed away, and there was no longer any sea."
Rev 21:1​


There is a strong differentiation between locations as far as the Word is concerned.
Only God can be in two places simultaneously. Are you saying we will become God?


Good question..... My guess at this time is that we exist in four dimensions of space and time. All of the elements in our physical bodies are composed of four fundamental forces; electromagnetism, gravity, weak and strong nuclear force.

M-Theory of String Theory postulates eleven dimenions of space - time. Bosonic String Theory postulate twenty six dimension total.

There are some quotations on Basic String Theory here:

www.CarbonBias.blogspot.ca/

Assuming that his account fist with 2 Corinthians 12
verses two to four..... I believe that near death experiencer Dr. George Ritchie may have gotten a glimpse of what eternity might be like for some who make it to the lowest envergetic level of heaven....... as well as for others who are part of the Bride of Messiah who follow Messiah Yeshua - Jesus everywhere that He goes.



Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience
e. His Observations of the Temple of Wisdom

The following is the testimony of George Ritchie's Temple of Wisdom and Heavenly City Experience: They then travel to a completely different realm where some kind of enormous university is located. Spirits dressed as monks busily and happily engaged in some form of artistic behavior or research. An enormous library exists here where all the important books of the universe are assembled. Ritchie asks Jesus if this is heaven. These are the spirits of people who grew beyond selfish desires while on Earth; but, like the spirits in hell, these spirits cannot see Jesus either.

f. His Vision of the Heavenly City

Ritchie is then taken into outer space toward a distant city made of brilliant light - similar in description to the heavenly city in the Book of Revelation (see also Revelation 21:10-27.) This is the place where people go who have become like Jesus while on Earth - a place where love is the dominant focus of life. This is heaven he realizes; but he is not allowed to enter it. Instead, Jesus shows him the future of Earth and is told to return to his physical body. At this point, Ritchie is revived from death.
 
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DennisTate

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Not all will. Only church age saints that fully mature in Christ will qualify to reign with Him. Jesus spoke to believers and warned that many believers will take the road to destruction (of our spiritual life) which is "broad and wide."

Broad and wide? Meaning, there are many variations for choosing from. They are out there today, each designed to suit specific desires of believers who walk in the power of their own human good... Broad and wide? How many denominations and cults do we find today? They can not all be correct when so many contradict the others on the Christian way of life. The choice has become organized and "broad and wide."

In contrast to "many?" Jesus stated that only a few will persevere the pressures required to find the narrow (strict) way that leads to life. Jesus did say He came to give life, and life more abundantly. Only a few believers today are finding it. Many play their part to find acceptance and approval in some denominational program on how to act and speak... and even to act happy.

Those who find that life may not even smile when you expect them to. And, sometimes smile when you think no one should.

This sounds like a pretty logical understanding of what is being set up for the future.
 
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GenemZ

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Good question..... My guess at this time is that we exist in four dimensions of space and time. All of the elements in our physical bodies are composed of four fundamental forces; electromagnetism, gravity, weak and strong nuclear force.

All that's based upon what is going to be destroyed. Nuclear fusion and fission will burn up the universe and earth... To be replaced be a new type of universe and planet earth. No aging. No dust. No fear.

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens
will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat;
both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up"
2 Peter 3:10​

Matter will have a structure different than known now. There will be no more time as we now know it. No more nights. Only one continuous Day.
 
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DennisTate

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All that's based upon what is going to be destroyed. Nuclear fusion and fission will burn up the universe and earth... To be replaced be a new type of universe and planet earth. No aging. No dust. No fear.

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens
will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat;
both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up"
2 Peter 3:10​

Matter will have a structure different than known now. There will be no more time as we now know it. No more nights. Only one continuous Day.


I agree...but I do think that the grandchildren and great grandchildren of whoever survives the Great Tribulation will have a relatively normal day and night cycle for at least one thousand years.

The armies that Satan gathers when he is loosed after being bound for one thousand years must be merely humans.

Christian Forums


And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and cast him into the abyss, and shut [it], and sealed [it] over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed for a little time.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
 
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GenemZ

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I agree...but I do think that the grandchildren and great grandchildren of whoever survives the Great Tribulation will have a relatively normal day and night cycle for at least one thousand years.

It will be what we call normal days and nights for the Millennium. Then after the thousand years is over another and much different New Heavens and Earth will be created. One that will be forever. That is the one that there will be no more night.

"There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp
or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And
they will reign for ever and ever."
Rev 22:5​

In Genesis 1, the first three days had light before the sun was given to bear light on the forth day.

The Lord was the light for those days too.
 
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fwGod

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Personally... I was taught that the destruction of the earth by fire would probably not be until perhaps 1200 or more years from now...... assuming a soon fulfillment of Zechariah 14
... by soon in mean in less than a century or so.....
I can agree with the 1000 years since that is the Millennium. I can agree that 7 years accounts for the Tribulation.
But I don't know of any scripture verse that would refer to the 200 years.

As I read it. Zachariah 14:4-5 refers to events that occur at the end of the Tribulation.
Verses 6-10 refers to the Millennium.
Verse 12 refers to the time after the Millennium when the army of Gog and Magog attacks.
Verses 16-21 returns to describe the Millennium.
 
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DennisTate

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I can agree with the 1000 years since that is the Millennium. I can agree that 7 years accounts for the Tribulation.
But I don't know of any scripture verse that would refer to the 200 years.

As I read it. Zachariah 14:4-5 refers to events that occur at the end of the Tribulation.
Verses 6-10 refers to the Millennium.
Verse 12 refers to the time after the Millennium when the army of Gog and Magog attacks.
Verses 16-21 returns to describe the Millennium.

We assumed that the Ezekiel 37 resurrection corresponded with the White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20
and Revelation 21

so we allowed for a minimum of a one hundred years for those resurrected after the millennium was completed.

We believed that the White Throne Judgment was the time when Messiah Yeshua - Jesus clearly explained the plan of salvation to those who lived and died never having been given a clear or understandable explanation for God's plans for us.
 
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Palmfever

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Can you name one thing that was specifically taught by Pharisees and was right?
The resurrection is a core principle in Christianity.

1 Cor, 15:14 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
Acts, 23:6 Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin, “Brothers, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee. It is because of my hope in the resurrection of the dead that I am on trial.”
In Christ
 
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The resurrection is a core principle in Christianity.

1 Cor, 15:14 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
Acts, 23:6 Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin, “Brothers, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee. It is because of my hope in the resurrection of the dead that I am on trial.”
In Christ
Amen the Resurrection it what sets Christianity apart and is at the very core of the gospel. It’s what authenticates our faith.

hope this helps !!!
 
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renniks

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Since I was a teenager back in the '70's I have believed in the saints being largely on a restored earth with the descendants of those who survive the Great Tribulation.

Matthew 5
Mat 5:5
"Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth."

Psa 37:11
"But the meek shall inherit the earth,
And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace."

Revelation 5
Rev 5:10
"And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”

Isaiah 11

And there shall come forth a shoot out of the stock of Jesse, and a branch out of his roots shall bear fruit.

2 And the Spirit of Jehovah shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah.

3 And his delight shall be in the fear of Jehovah; and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither decide after the hearing of his ears; 4 but with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the earth; and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth; and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his waist, and faithfulness the girdle of his loins.

6 And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den.

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea.

Now I admit that this subject is somewhat complex because it is clearly predicted that after Messiah Yeshua - Jesus reigns over the earth for one thousand years then...... even the Ancient of Days the Father comes down to the earth so in a sense..... earth becomes heaven..... I think?!

"looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells."
2 Peter 3:12-13

Revelation 21:1

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

Isaiah 65:17
Verse Concepts
"For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind.

I would not speculate about when this will happen. But heaven is clearly not our final home, the new earth is.
 
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.

RESURRECTION = God getting us where He wanted us to always be in the first place!


(right now. we are only larvae)



.
The Resurrection takes us from being mortal to immortality but we are not larvae and we are complete in Christ in the meantime. Man is now a body, soul and spirit . Man will be a body , soul and spirit in the Resurrection.

hope this helps !!!
 
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GenemZ

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The Resurrection takes us from being mortal to immortality but we are not larvae and we are complete in Christ in the meantime. Man is now a body, soul and spirit . Man will be a body , soul and spirit in the Resurrection.

hope this helps !!!


If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that
are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that
are on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden
with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears,
then you also will appear with him in glory."
Col 3:1-4​

Right now we are complete in Christ "positionally."
Because God, who is not limited by time, has declared it to be so.

But, we are not yet complete in Christ "experientially."
That experience will happen when we receive our resurrection body.
A body just like His own.

Right now it says we are hidden in Christ! Christ is our spiritual Cocoon while we wait to be revealed as He is. No one can see what we are now while transforming into what we are becoming. For we are hidden in Him. Hidden by His Cocoon.

Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ
Jesus were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:3​

What we were before we entered into Christ is no longer alive!

"For you have died, and your life is hidden
with Christ in God."

Now is the time to we need to keep on reinforcing the cocoon of our new lives by learning more and more sound doctrine, which is being held together by the Holy Spirit who is wanting to make us fully ready for when we come out into the sunlight of immortality seeing the Lord Jesus Christ face to face.

Those who now neglect to keep refreshing the cocoon with sound doctrine? They will be confused and feeling shame when it opens. That is why we are told we need to be a workman needing not to be ashamed.

Some here take what is expressed in these discussions as a competitive sport. Not wanting to learn so much. But, wanting to complete. For they are naturally competitive by nature. Wanting to find ways to trip up and tackle someone who may be carrying treasure down the path. Treasure which they see as a football, rather than what they should be seeing.

Yet, we are to tackle those running with false doctrine, and expose them. Then it is right to do, and not simply because of being competitive. The naturally competitive need to take their tendency to their own cross and deny self, if they are ever to become humble and able to continuously grow into true maturity in Christ.

grace and peace
 
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