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Thoughts? VIDEO - Why I hate religion, but love Jesus

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by ati, Jan 16, 2012.

  1. ati

    ati Newbie

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    Some of you may have already watched this video, which is making circles around the internet. If not, here it is:

    chiselseason . com/?p=768 (delete the spaces -- sorry, not enough posts for links)

    12 million+ views on YouTube, all over Facebook, etc. Just wondering what you all think of it. I've read comments on Facebook such as, "This is exactly what I believe!" To be honest, I've watched it a few times and I'm not sure I'm getting out of it what others are finding so amazing. Maybe I'm being too analytical to see the simple message, I don't know. The guy seems to have a great level of passion and enthusiasm, which is awesome, but I'm left wondering: What is he saying with which people are so emphatically agreeing?

    If he is trying to say that belief in the Messiah requires a transformation on the inside and not just the outward, mechanical motions that can be found within the walls of church structures amongst attendants, then I agree: you can't just wash the outside of the cup while the inside is filled with poison.

    But what of the opposite? Are viewers deriving from this video a message that the internal transformation makes the outward expressions of obedience useless? I only ask this because we MJ's tend to be on the Law-abiding end of the spectrum far from the "grace = license" end.

    I watched the video and shrugged a bit, to be honest. Excited that he is firing people up for the Messiah, but a bit unclear as to what exactly is the meat of his message.
     
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  2. yedida

    yedida Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!

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    Ah, I see that you are a part of our Torah-based portion of followers here. We are in full agreement that there is more to what Yeshua taught than to just agree mentally and then sit back and take a ride to heaven. One's faith should be a relationship with the Father but a relationship takes effort on both sides.
    I'm not sure the video-man is aware of this. I'm not really sure if I got what he was trying to point out.
    He actually was very confusing. He spoke of cleaning up and doing the Sunday churchy thing and then living like the rest of the world though the week. But then he talked about Grace and "done" and not "doing" so I don't know where he was heading with that one...:confused:
     
  3. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    "Why I Hate Religion, But I Love Jesus".



    I actually saw this 4 days ago due to one of my friends wanting me to check it out..and although I thought it was excellent on many points, many things can easily be taken the wrong way if the proper context is either forgotten or lost in translation when terms aren't defined.



    If interested, here is a rebuttal of that video made by an Orthodox priest.



    There are some things I didn't really agree with on what the Orthodox priest noted, as I think some things were read into more than necessary...and without understanding the context of how words are used in a given culture, one may assume something uncessary.

    For many, when they speak of "religion" or "rules", they are often using the term the way others have when it comes to defining it as organization that's divorced from the Work of Christ in justification/sanctification and truly sharing His love with others.

    The audiences familar with the vernacular--especially in young adult cultures--don't automatically assume all rules are bad since following Christ entails following a certain set of rules when it comes to His commandments...and the same theme is seen in the early church when they were guided by the commands of Christ/scripture as the boundaries while not being like the other religious leaders of the day in how they often made rules with their traditions/made things WAY more complicated than necessary.

    The artists goes to an organized church, to my knowledge, and thus I don't think it'd be fair to assume he's speaking against all forms of rules since that wouldn't match the context he lives out daily.


    When the Spoken Word artist speaks of salvation and Christ saying it's "Done", the context was that of seeing how many churches emphasize works to the point where they go counter to what Paul noted in Galatians 2-3 with our righteousness not being something one can earn by merit alone----whereas many churches exalt what they do and make it seem as if Christ didn't really have to do anything for them to be righteous.

    Additionally, there are many churches that are organized in such a way that Christ would never need to be focused upon in order for Church to continue...and what they say doesn't match what they believe. Thus, it's why the spoken word artist spoke so much on hypocrisy--and I can definately relate to this when it comes to many churches only being able to condemn....yet never willing to be like the Good Samaritan and help.

    That said, there were alot of things I think the artist/poet may need to consider. For religion isn't the best term to describe what it is that he was trying to convey. As James 1:26-27 notes"
    James 1:22-27

    New International Version (NIV)



    22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do. 26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

    Also, for another..
    1 Timothy 5:4
    But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God.
    1 Timothy 5:3-5
    There is the reality that certain forms of religion were beautiful to the Lord...one that loved justice and mercy and kept oneself from spiritual compromise with worldliness.



    There are other scriptures noting the reality of how false religion is worthless--especially when doing all of the outer aspects of what the Lord requires and yet completely missing the Spirit, such as when the Lord rebuked his people for doing as he commanded with sacrifices/temple worship and yet they couldn't care less for the Lord since they tolerated idolatry and injustice in the land...and to them, it was all good ( Jeremiah 7:1-3/ Jeremiah 7 , etc ).

    The book of Amos is rather blunt on that issue, if seeing how much the Lord spoke through that prophet to declare how he was tired of buisness as usual/making a mockery of the religion he instituted:
    Amos 5:21
    “I hate, I despise your religious festivals; your assemblies are a stench to me. 22 Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings,
    I will not accept them.
    Though you bring choice fellowship offerings,
    I will have no regard for them.
    23 Away with the noise of your songs!
    I will not listen to the music of your harps.
    24 But let justice roll on like a river,
    righteousness like a never-failing stream!
    Amos 5:20-22

    Amos 8:10
    Hear this, you who trample the needy
    and do away with the poor of the land,

    5 saying,
    “When will the New Moon be over
    that we may sell grain,
    and the Sabbath be ended
    that we may market wheat?”—
    skimping on the measure,
    boosting the price
    and cheating with dishonest scales,
    6 buying the poor with silver
    and the needy for a pair of sandals,
    selling even the sweepings with the wheat.
    7 The LORD has sworn by himself, the Pride of Jacob: “I will never forget anything they have done.
    8 “Will not the land tremble for this,
    and all who live in it mourn?
    The whole land will rise like the Nile;
    it will be stirred up and then sink
    like the river of Egypt. 9 “In that day,” declares the Sovereign LORD,

    I will turn your religious festivals into mourning and all your singing into weeping. I will make all of you wear sackcloth and shave your heads. I will make that time like mourning for an only son and the end of it like a bitter day.
    Amos 8:9-11
    Also, with religion, there's no escaping ( as Paul noted in Acts 26:4-6 / Acts 26, Hebrews 10:10-12 / Hebrews 10 ) that Christianity was connected to it. And not all forms of religion were bad


    Thus, the author of the rebuttal you gave was very much on point when it came to acknowledging that religion isn't the same as being hypocritical in the ultimate sense----but when one doesn't care to live up to what they profess to believe, that's indeed a deadly religion.



    Additionally, as the author of the rebuttal notes, it was never the case that the Lord was against all aspects of the religious leaders of His day.

    As he said:
    When one understands the historical backdrop of who Christ is, the reality is that He often spoke directly IN line with the religious leaders of his context.
     
  4. ati

    ati Newbie

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    This ^^^. I was hoping this was what he was getting at.

    Thanks for the response, Easy G. Your suggestions and mention of things that may have been overlooked by the man in the video are certainly worthwhile considerations which get to the core of the potential issues I can see with the video. More the point, I hope it's not coming across as justification for this:

    That quote is a comment found underneath the video. Of course, I agree that one cannot merit their salvation, but the next line of reasoning for people on that end of the spectrum is that believers in the Messiah should NOT follow the Law in any "legalist" (whatever that means!) manner, such as habitually keeping the sabbaths and feasts, keeping a kosher diet, etc., or they are accursed. It's part of the "Christian missionizing" of Jews and MJs that says they must leave all "Jewish" things behind -- anti-nomianism that regards all things of the Torah-Law as "bad" and "inferior."
     
  5. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Something I found out after myself/other believers discussed the theology of the video is that the man speaking is a Youth Minister...deeply involved with his church/working with other young adults coming from a culture that uses terms like "religion" to mean hypocrisy/dismissal of the Lord.

    And he thankfully sought to clarify his intentions. From Jeff Bethke's Facebook page:

    __________________

    The man truly loves the Church, although he hates what it has become...


    I think where others often miss it is that all of those things are apart of the heritage believers have in the Messiah--and remembering them has much beauty, although there's no merit in salvation if celebrating them for salific purposes----which many have often done. And with "legalist", what many often mean is when they see others saying they're justified by the rules they set up which may not even be within scripture...such as others saying "Don't be of the world!!!!" and then condeming anyone watching a movie or T.V---or people (as what often happens in Holiness Pentecostal churches) saying that wearing pants/make-up is against the scriptures and therefore one's destined for "Hell."

    Legalist doesn't equate to saying there are NO standards---and many believers have often noted that. Messianic Jewish Apologist, Dr.Michael Brown, discussed it best in one of his articles here when it came to discussing the Feasts/Festivals and other aspects of Jewish culture that are celebrated from a non-salific perspective. I'm thankful for what many Christians have often said when it comes to the claim that they advocate a "grace" theology---for there's a difference between the "grace" theology that makes life into a liscence to sin and one that calls believers unto Holiness. Not all things under the label of "grace" are the equivalent of "anything goes" (counter to what Jude 1:1-6 discusses). Christians have LONG been discussing that distinction for ages, as I recall growing up and seeing multiple points where it was never the case that the concept of grace was EVER seen by all advocating it that one could do whatever they wanted just because they know they'd get away with it.

    For some Christian sources that speak directly on the subject of why "cheap grace" is a negative:

    Hebrews 12:14-17 comes immediately to mind when it comes to seeking Holiness/pursuing peace with all men.



    I'd say that it's actually anti-Christ/"UnChristian" for anyone to say that all Jewish things are to be left behind..and thankfully, many Christians have noted that in regards to the dangers of anti-nomianism ..and defining what it is or isn't.

    The Messianics over at the Rosh Pina Project discussed it best in one of their articles here and here entitled Torah and Antinomian Theology Within The TOM-J ... - The Rosh Pina Project and A Messianic Jewish Levite on the New ... - The Rosh Pina Project
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2012
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