Thoughts on this...from Catholics or anyone else?

[PastorTeacher]

Read Matt 25 where Jesus is separating the sheep and the goats. Where is belief discussed in that passage?

I wouldn't base my whole theological belief of salvation based on Matthew 25.

 

[PastorTeacher]

Is it just me or did this just turn into an "Arminianism" vs "Calvinism" debate?

Really seems that way. Saddly I'm finding that they all turn that way.

 

[steamforthis]

When considering the rest of the bible do you really believe God choses some wicked people give eternal life to and others he does not?

Predestination is a completely different topic...

The wicked are not saved by the cross apart from being loving.

John 14:6. Jesus is the only way. Not works, not being a "good" person, not being loving "most of the time"

No you did not and quoting some other verse is not addressing the issue presented.

The verse is far from irrelevant. You said you can be righteous by works. Romans 3:10 says otherwise. How is this not addressing the issue?

Avoiding the issue again. Are you unable to focus and address an issue when presented?

Now you're just being silly.

The book of Job is teaching that a righteous man will suffer in this world and when he does that is not because of his sins. The parable of Lazarus and the rich man taught the same lesson. Die you understand the lesson being taught?

Again, Elihu told Job he needs to humble himself. Job was trying to justify himself by saying he did nothing wrong.

Also,

Probably not.

You are advocating works salvation, the verses are arguing against it.

Deal with the issue of there being righteous people in Ezekiel. Quoting Romans does not deal with the issue. It simply brings up the Bible contradicting itself.

I did. A while ago.

Look and see.

No point in discussing anything with you.

So, when I bring up scripture there's no point of responding. I see.

I have already said no. Can you read?

"You think logically we can be gifted with something without earning it and yet qualifying for the gift."

Can you read? You just said you can qualify for salvation.

Have you read the story of the Good Samaritan and the verses preceding it? He says exactly that.

Jesus said to love God with all your heart soul and mind.

If we did, we would not be selfish and sin against God.

Therefore, because all have sinned, the only way is to believe in Jesus (John 14:6).

.Not addressing the issue.

Avoided the issue again.

Ignoring scripture? Really?

Where is your scripture?

It's wrong to think that you cannot respect God without actually believing in Him?

The Bible does not say we are not saved by our fruit.

A) Russell's teapot. Logical fallacy.

B) Yes, it does. Many times. I gave you the verses, and you ignore them.

 

[elman]

I wouldn't base my whole theological belief of salvation based on Matthew 25.

I would not base my whole theological belief on salvation without accommodating Matt 25.

 

[elman]

Originally Posted by elman View Post


Deal with the issue of there being righteous people in Ezekiel. Quoting Romans does not deal with the issue. It simply brings up the Bible contradicting itself.

I did. A while ago.

Look and see.

Please repeat it.

 

[steamforthis]

Please repeat it.

"It's referring to the fact that he was devoted to God. It doesn't mean he was rewarded righteousness for his works."

And as I also said before, it's clearly not referring to a sinless man. Romans 3:23.

 

[elman]

"It's referring to the fact that he was devoted to God. It doesn't mean he was rewarded righteousness for his works."

And as I also said before, it's clearly not referring to a sinless man. Romans 3:23.

I agree we all fall short, including Job and the righteous in Ezekiel 18 and the sheep in Matt 25, but that does not result in our obedience to the command to love or our turning from wickedness to righteousness having nothing to do with receiving the gift of eternal life. God does not gift eternal life to the wicked. Do you agree that God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him? Do you agree that Jesus answered the question how do I inherit eternal life with love God and man?

 

[steamforthis]

God does not gift eternal life to the wicked.

Please, go into more detail with this statement.

My response will depend on yours.

 

[elman]

Please, go into more detail with this statement.

My response will depend on yours.

I agree with Ezekiel. We can destroy our own soul with our own sin. When we do we are able to turn from wickedness to righteousness. If we do we will life and not die, but if we do not turn and remain wicked we will die and not live.

 

[steamforthis]

I agree with Ezekiel. We can destroy our own soul with our own sin. When we do we are able to turn from wickedness to righteousness. If we do we will life and not die, but if we do not turn and remain wicked we will die and not live.

How do you believe this "turn" from wickedness to righteousness is done?

Through Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21)? Or through works?

 

[elman]

How do you believe this "turn" from wickedness to righteousness is done?

Through Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21)? Or through works?

Through the ability God gave all human beings. Ezekiel, Jesus, John and most of the writers of the Bible did not have the disrespect you have for loving others. How do you think the wicked turned to righteousness in EZekiel 18?

 

[steamforthis]

Through the ability God gave all human beings. Ezekiel, Jesus, John and most of the writers of the Bible did not have the disrespect you have for loving others. How do you think the wicked turned to righteousness in EZekiel 18?

I never said that it's wrong to love others.

I just said that it is incorrect to say simply loving others is the way to salvation.

Besides, no one can fully love others.

 

[elman]

I never said that it's wrong to love others.

I just said that it is incorrect to say simply loving others is the way to salvation.

Besides, no one can fully love others.

Jesus said it was the way to inherit eternal life. Besides, no one said anyone can be perfect and not fall short.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

... Atheists who do good are redeemed....]
Is this fairly reported? Is the Pope being taken out of context? Or is he actually proclaiming that "doing good" will lead everyone to heaven, atheists included?

Even the great american fraud, Billy something, said this, and deceived multitudes who adore him.
It is written in Scripture, God's Word, that this will happen in these days we live in - the great falling away/ apostasy/ to eternal judgment/ death/ no forgiveness for those who fall away and never turn to God.....

 

[Ron Gurley]

The RCC 3 legged stool: Scripture + Tradition + Magisterium.

I am "SCRIPTURUM SUPREMA". The Pope ain't!