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Thoughts on the sacred name people?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by wallet_man, Nov 15, 2020.

  1. wallet_man

    wallet_man New Member

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    One friend says the name is the most important thing - I researched into it a decent while ago and came to the conclusion I couldn't verify it due to the multiple languages involved but didn't keep the points I wrote down when I was studying the topic. What are the for and against points for this topic? Restudying it recently hallelujah being short for praise Yahweh is the most intriguing and strongest point I'd like to know more about.
     
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  2. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    I pronounce the name as described in this video:

     
  3. Joyous Song

    Joyous Song Well-Known Member

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    I always felt names are important, they seem to predict where we are likely to go and a good name transforms us and bad name can lead to sorrow.
     
  4. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    (CLV) Jer 23:26
    How long? Can the heart of the prophets who prophesy falsehood, even the prophets with deceit in their heart, turn back,

    (CLV) Jer 23:27
    who design to make My people forget My Name by their dreams which they recount, each one to his associate, just as their fathers forgot My Name for Baal?
     
  5. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    In the Bible, a person's name has much more to do with their authority and who they were as a person than with what they were referred to as. For example, each of the names of God teach us about an aspect of His character. So someone who knows the Messiah, but mispronounces his name nevertheless has a much better understanding of his name than the other way around. A parent who names their child "Yeshua" would not be giving them the name that is above all names because they have not done what he has done and do not have his authority. God has answered the prayers of people who pay to Jesus, so He is not waiting around until we get his name right to answer our prayers. His name is not an incantation.
     
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  6. GedaliahMaegil

    GedaliahMaegil Messianic Ger Toshav

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    What do I think about them? The same thing that any faithful Jew would think, about trying to say the name of HaShem or invent a new one for him. It's irresponsible and done far too casually.
     
  7. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Circumcision of the Heart is Messianic

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    Even within the recent "Sacred Name Movement" there is no consensus on the correct pronunciation (or spelling). Isn't Faithful, True and The Word of GOD good enough?

    If He revealed the name written on Him would religious mankind continue to debate over the exact pronunciation? Thus, why "no one knows except Himself."

    Revelation 19:11-13
    11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many crowns; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.​
     
  8. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    I don't completely agree with this commentator; but she gives some insight as to where the confusion is coming from.



    The Hebrew language is expressed in concrete terms. In other words ideas are expressed in what can be perceived by the senses. Western Philosophy is rooted in Ancient Greece. Most of the world has now adopted this way of thinking. It deals with abstract concepts. In order to better grasp the concepts of YHWH's word, I've leaned that I must abandon this abstract, often vague approach, coming out of a Pagan culture, and came at his word from a Hebrew mindset. His word was given to a people who thought in a particular way. The better I understand the way they think; the better I can understand what was said to them.

    119 Ministries offers a very short videos on the word Ruach




    It's not as deeply informative as Alan Horvath's teachings; but his word studies tend to be over a half an hour in length.

    Anyway, these two introductory videos are a decent start to understanding.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2020
  9. .Mikha'el.

    .Mikha'el. Young Fogie Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    I'm not a fan either, and I'm not even a Jew, just someone who has come to see the light about Torah. :)
     
  10. Dkh587

    Dkh587 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    the emphasis on the grammatical aspect of it is a distraction and based in an incorrect understanding of what “name” means in Hebrew.

    for example, Christians tend to view the verse “God has given him a name above all names” as a declaration that the grammatical name of Jesus is the most powerful of all grammatical names, which we know is faulty, because “Jesus” was a common name during the Messiah’s time, and there are millions of people named Joshua, and even Jesus(hey-sus) in the Latin community. It has to do with his power and authority, not the grammatical name that he is called.

    another mistake, is that people think the Messiah “coming in the name of his father” has to do with his grammatical name. David came to Goliath in the name of Yahweh of Hosts, yet his “name” was David.

    I think we should call out God’s name, and use the names given to us in the Torah & Prophets, but we shouldn’t go too far and misapply what the scriptures are actually saying based on our English understanding of what a “name” is.
     
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  11. Grumman Tomcat

    Grumman Tomcat ✡Messianic✞ Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter

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    ADMIN HAT ON
    Members who do not truly share the core beliefs and teachings of a specific congregational forum may post in fellowship or ask questions, but they may not teach or debate within the forum.
    ADMIN HAT OFF
     
  12. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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    "Yah" is the "poetic" short form of YHVH. It is used as a suffix in names. "YeHo" is used as a prefix. He says "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh"...this is My Name for ever, and this is My memorial unto all generations.
    Hayah Hoveh Yih'yeh
    Revelation 1:8
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
  13. garee

    garee Newbie

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    Because God knows what we need before we ask he calls us according to His power or many attributes .There is no name we could call him separate from his work or attribute. When we hear His voice then we can like Samuel after the third time can say; here I am Emanuel (God with us) what is your will?

    There is nothing we could do to turn him .In that way Job 23 informs us he is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul pleases .Who could turn him? For he performs whatever he has appointed to us .He makes our hearts soft as we rest in the working he works with us .. .making our burden lighter with a future hope .

    The word "name" it denotes unseen power .Attributes of God. At the name or power of Jesus meaning savoir every knee of the new creation will bend acknowledging God as our Unseen father worked together with the Son converting a mankind from darkness to light, by the power of that saving authority .

    Jehovah meaning "mighty God has become a savior" .The same name as Jesus or Joshua with mighty has become savior is added.
    God who is not a man does not have a name l like hey Joe, George or Bob .Again all the names are immutable attributes. His name is Jealous and he magnifies his living word above all the attributes .

    Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

    Forbidding us from using his attributes as if coming from other gods before Him. Using the power of his name in vain .

    His promise of His word rises above the attributes to give a us a confidence if he has begun the good work as savior he will finish it till the end.

    Philipians1:5;6 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
     
  14. Josephus

    Josephus <b>Co-Founder Christian Forums</b> Supporter

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    The Name, as it is pronounced, is known, and can be known. Ask any rabbi, or cohen who is observant. It is just not said, except twice, on Yom Kippur, and only by the High Priest, and only when a Temple is in existence, in obedience to the command "Do not profane My Holy Name." How is it profaned? When it is not holy. Therefore to make his Name common, from this logic, is to profane it.

    However, as a living example of the Torah, I tend to take the position and thus engage in the living example of our Master, Rabbi Yeshua, who when reading from the scroll of Isaiah in the synagogue concerning a passage that was directly fulfilled in the hearing of their hears, used a circumlocution written as "Kurios" in the Greek, translated as Adonai in Hebrew, or simply "Lord" in English. Had Yeshua pronounced the Name as written (and he certainly knew it), he probably would have been thrown out of the synagogue, and the Greek translator/writer of the gospel would have left evidence of this in an attempt to transliterate what Yeshua said rather than serve a translation.

    So then, since my Master used a circumlocution even when reading from the scripture in a synagogue, even as it was fulfilled by its reading, then how much more so I will use circumlocutions for anything else less than that.

    We also find Moshe using circumlocution when addressing HaShem directly, but I'll have to look up the verse for you. In short, the Torah teaches us to use circumlocution as well.

    Shalom,

    Josephus
     
  15. garee

    garee Newbie

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    Where would that kind of logic come from seeing we are to call no man on earth Rabbi Good Master? If the name is in the scripture we pronounce it every time we hear or read it. Our Master or Holy Father is in heaven.
     
  16. Josephus

    Josephus <b>Co-Founder Christian Forums</b> Supporter

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    Yet Yeshua did not pronounce it as written, but used a circumlocution. Whose example must I follow if not his?

    And does the prohibition on not calling anyone "father" extend to your own? If not then the Master was not referring to a prohibition but a point of teaching, else he would have pointed out it would have been wrong for any biblical character to call to anyone "father".
     
  17. garee

    garee Newbie

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    Circumlocution is the use of many words where fewer would do, especially in a deliberate attempt to be vague or evasive.

    That is not the case . God does not have one attribute or name that sums up all the attributes other than God which represents a Spirit being not seen.

    The prohibition on not calling anyone "father" extends to all of mankind .He is the Father of all spirits ? God is not a man .

    There are three things that make up his essence not attributes. . God is eternal Spirit. God is light. God is Love.

    Each name is a immutable attribute. God's name is Jealous because he owns all things. God name is Jesus or Joshua because he saves His people . God name is Jehovah because he is a mighty God who has become the our savior of a whole nation. . Gods name is Emanuel because he dwells with believers. Some attributes are mixes with others to help us understand context of the work he is performing.
    .



    .
     
  18. GedaliahMaegil

    GedaliahMaegil Messianic Ger Toshav

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    It's been very common for the nations for centuries to be flip with the name of HaShem, especially among those who presume that they are followers of His Messiah. Indeed, Yeshua demonstrated - as had the Nevi`im who were sent before Him - that the Name is to be holy and treated as such. Whose example, indeed, if not His?
     
  19. garee

    garee Newbie

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    Those who presume that they are followers of Messiah you say are not because why?

    How would it affect the gospel with the wrong attribute or name used to call on God ?

    Would it mean no salvation for those who do not use the right attribute or language ? God's name is Jealous. we are to call no Rabbi on earth good master .One is our master teacher in heaven the Lord .

    Does one attribute as a name rise above others ?
     
  20. GedaliahMaegil

    GedaliahMaegil Messianic Ger Toshav

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    For the answers to your questions, I would direct you to You must read and agree before posting in this forum .
     
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