Thoughts on politics...tell me where I'm wrong

[Steve97]

We live in a secular culture. As a Christian, I am a minority and live a life outside of this culture, just passing through on my way to my eternal home. HOWEVER, while I am alive, I am responsible to subject myself to authority and participate (obey laws, pay taxes, vote, etc.) in the culture. I do not look to politicians for moral leadership. Can they do the job as effectively as possible within the framework of a secularized culture? I follow politics, local and national, but do not expect ANY politician to follow my worldview (Christian). I cannot support a political party that supports "pro-choice" NOR ANY politician who embraces abortion as a "choice", regardless of political party. I am not in favor of any theocratic government, including Christian. Questions or comments welcome. Please be polite Thank you for reading.

 

[HTacianas]

We live in a secular culture. As a Christian, I am a minority and live a life outside of this culture, just passing through on my way to my eternal home. HOWEVER, while I am alive, I am responsible to subject myself to authority and participate (obey laws, pay taxes, vote, etc.) in the culture. I do not look to politicians for moral leadership. Can they do the job as effectively as possible within the framework of a secularized culture? I follow politics, local and national, but do not expect ANY politician to follow my worldview (Christian). I cannot support a political party that supports "pro-choice" NOR ANY politician who embraces abortion as a "choice", regardless of political party. I am not in favor of any theocratic government, including Christian. Questions or comments welcome. Please be polite Thank you for reading.

Time was in the Western world nations were ruled by emperors. Those emperors ruled as they saw fit. As Christianity took hold the emperors became Christians and fairly well ruled according to Christian law.

Nowadays we live pretty much in democracies at least to the extent that we vote for our leaders and in some places our laws. Individuals exercising their right to vote have replaced emperors. The individual is now the emperor.

Through your vote, rule as a Christian emperor.

 

[HannahT]

You need to do what you feel led to do. Yet, get ready for the stereotypes that are coming. People tend to jump all over those that tend to hint at one issue voters.

I do tend to agree with the lack of moral leadership in politics. Yet, today it so polarized that people won't see that at all. Their side is the moral one, and the other is evil. How their side is better than the other, etc.

Hate sells in this current culture, and has been that way for years now. Heck, even prior to this administration. I think the media and the politicians themselves encourage it. It's a deflection no one wants to see.

 

[Steve97]

Very well stated. I wish more Christians would prayerfully participate and vote when the opportunity presents itself. Wisdom and discernment.

 

[Steve97]

You need to do what you feel led to do. Yet, get ready for the stereotypes that are coming. People tend to jump all over those that tend to hint at one issue voters.

I do tend to agree with the lack of moral leadership in politics. Yet, today it so polarized that people won't see that at all. Their side is the moral one, and the other is evil. How their side is better than the other, etc.

Hate sells in this current culture, and has been that way for years now. Heck, even prior to this administration. I think the media and the politicians themselves encourage it. It's a deflection no one wants to see.

Again, this is secularized culture. What can you expect?

 

[FenderTL5]

We live in a secular culture. As a Christian, I am a minority and live a life outside of this culture, just passing through on my way to my eternal home. HOWEVER, while I am alive, I am responsible to subject myself to authority and participate (obey laws, pay taxes, vote, etc.) in the culture. I do not look to politicians for moral leadership. Can they do the job as effectively as possible within the framework of a secularized culture? I follow politics, local and national, but do not expect ANY politician to follow my worldview (Christian).

Thus far I'm with you.

I cannot support a political party that supports "pro-choice" NOR ANY politician who embraces abortion as a "choice", regardless of political party. I am not in favor of any theocratic government, including Christian. Questions or comments welcome. Please be polite Thank you for reading.

Why stop there? Can you support a party/candidate who would oppress widows and orphans? Can you support those who neglect immigrants? How about showing favoritism to the wealthy and powerful?

It's not that you are wrong as much as it would appear you apply a litmus on a narrow criteria.

Many Christians are “single issue voters.” Often this single issue is abortion. It is rooted in the core conviction that all life is sacred, and begins at conception. These Christians will check what a candidate’s position is specifically on abortion and vote from there.
Other Christians, equally pro-life, I would say, consider the “life” question as being more complicated. This Christian voter may even vote time to time for a “pro-choice” candidate that they believe has a track record for alleviating the factors that surround abortion: access health care and education or issues of systematic poverty. I think both of these voters can vote the way they do in sincerity. I do not, however, believe a Christian can take the stance of being “pro-abortion.”

Some Christians are against any and all war, which they can use Scripture to back up. Other Christians see the issue of war as being complicated, and sometimes justified – these Christians can also use Scripture to back up their position. Both can sincerely come to this conclusion, I believe. I do not, however, believe a Christian can be “pro-war.” Christians of sincere faith come to different conclusions concerning issues of guns, health care, LGBTQ rights, taxes, immigration, and many other political issues. Some things I think a Christian cannot support: torture, oppression, greed, exploitation, blatant immorality.

 

[Steve97]

Thus far I'm with you.

Why stop there? Can you support a party/candidate who would oppress widows and orphans? Can you support those who neglect immigrants? How about showing favoritism to the wealthy and powerful?

It's not that you are wrong as much as it would appear you apply a litmus on a narrow criteria.

Many Christians are “single issue voters.” Often this single issue is abortion. It is rooted in the core conviction that all life is sacred, and begins at conception. These Christians will check what a candidate’s position is specifically on abortion and vote from there.
Other Christians, equally pro-life, I would say, consider the “life” question as being more complicated. This Christian voter may even vote time to time for a “pro-choice” candidate that they believe has a track record for alleviating the factors that surround abortion: access health care and education or issues of systematic poverty. I think both of these voters can vote the way they do in sincerity. I do not, however, believe a Christian can take the stance of being “pro-abortion.”

Some Christians are against any and all war, which they can use Scripture to back up. Other Christians see the issue of war as being complicated, and sometimes justified – these Christians can also use Scripture to back up their position. Both can sincerely come to this conclusion, I believe. I do not, however, believe a Christian can be “pro-war.” Christians of sincere faith come to different conclusions concerning issues of guns, health care, LGBTQ rights, taxes, immigration, and many other political issues. Some things I think a Christian cannot support: torture, oppression, greed, exploitation, blatant immorality.

Interesting thoughts. Words like "oppress', "neglect" and showing "favoritism" can be subjective. I agree with your comments.

 

[-57]

Why stop there? Can you support a party/candidate who would oppress widows and orphans? Can you support those who neglect immigrants? How about showing favoritism to the wealthy and powerful?

Just trying to understand your post...are you saying this is what the Republican party (Trump) is doing?

 

[HannahT]

Again, this is secularized culture. What can you expect?

lol I acknowledged that. I'm not sure of your point.

 

[HannahT]

Just trying to understand your post...are you saying this is what the Republican party (Trump) is doing?

Both parties have done it. It's the one currently in power that gets the backlash, and the ignoring of how these things happened when the opposite party was in power that is the norm.

 

[thecolorsblend]

We live in a secular culture. As a Christian, I am a minority and live a life outside of this culture, just passing through on my way to my eternal home. HOWEVER, while I am alive, I am responsible to subject myself to authority and participate (obey laws, pay taxes, vote, etc.) in the culture. I do not look to politicians for moral leadership. Can they do the job as effectively as possible within the framework of a secularized culture? I follow politics, local and national, but do not expect ANY politician to follow my worldview (Christian). I cannot support a political party that supports "pro-choice" NOR ANY politician who embraces abortion as a "choice", regardless of political party. I am not in favor of any theocratic government, including Christian. Questions or comments welcome. Please be polite Thank you for reading.

The Christian religion started life as a counterculture. Having said that, fundamentally Christian nations are impossible to miss in the history of the west. Considering the social power of a prevailing culture, I will never understand the Christians who desire to keep their faith utterly separate from public life. Nor will I ever approve.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

We live in a secular culture. As a Christian, I am a minority and live a life outside of this culture, just passing through on my way to my eternal home. HOWEVER, while I am alive, I am responsible to subject myself to authority and participate (obey laws, pay taxes, vote, etc.) in the culture. I do not look to politicians for moral leadership. Can they do the job as effectively as possible within the framework of a secularized culture? I follow politics, local and national, but do not expect ANY politician to follow my worldview (Christian). I cannot support a political party that supports "pro-choice" NOR ANY politician who embraces abortion as a "choice", regardless of political party. I am not in favor of any theocratic government, including Christian. Questions or comments welcome. Please be polite Thank you for reading.

Many Christians are irresponsible with their political power. They aren't active politically because they are, "going to Heaven". Meanwhile, their passivity causes many to live a Hell on Earth by allowing demonically-influenced forces to win the day.

I don't vote for persons. I vote for party platforms. I vote for the political party that allows for religious liberty, and punishes evil and rewards good (Romans 13).

 

[Steve97]

The Christian religion started life as a counterculture. Having said that, fundamentally Christian nations are impossible to miss in the history of the west. Considering the social power of a prevailing culture, I will never understand the Christians who desire to keep their faith utterly separate from public life. Nor will I ever approve.

I agree. I like to use this illustration: Let's say I am from New York. As a Christian my ultimate destination is California. I am presently living in Texas, on my way to California. For the time being, I obey Texas laws, pay Texas taxes, shop in Texas store, talk and have friendly relationships with Texans. I do not have to wear a cowboy hat, like country music and become a "Texan", become a part of the prevailing culture. I am not from here. Pardon the caricatures and I hope you understand the illustration.

 

[Steve97]

Many Christians are irresponsible with their political power. They aren't active politically because they are, "going to Heaven". Meanwhile, their passivity causes many to live a Hell on Earth by allowing demonically-influenced forces to win the day.

I don't vote for persons. I vote for party platforms. I vote for the political party that allows for religious liberty, and punishes evil and rewards good (Romans 13).

All good points. The problem is our culture determines for itself what is evil and good, apart from God.

 

[Steve97]

lol I acknowledged that. I'm not sure of your point.

This is what I have to remind myself of continuously when I watch the news!

 

[FenderTL5]

Just trying to understand your post...are you saying this is what the Republican party (Trump) is doing?

Specifically, no. Those were just three social issues that were top of mind that I would place similarly alongside abortion/Pro-Life issues. I am staunchly pro-life.
otoh, the last sentence would speak directly to why I did not support Trump when I have traditionally supported GOP presidential candidates. He demonstrated most of those issues, even to a point of braggadocio on some.

 

[Albion]

Anyone who is "pro-life" votes pro-life.

 

[FenderTL5]

Anyone who is "pro-life" votes pro-life.

Agree and why I'm thankful that thus far there have been more than two parties/candidates available as a ballot option.

 

[Steve97]

Just some thoughts on Trump, since he keeps coming up on this thread. Please understand that these are my observations and opinions. I lived most of my life living near New York city and Donald Trump was in the news frequently. He always came across as "being famous for being famous", like one of the Kardashians, Paris Hilton or (if you are old enough to remember, Zsa Zsa Gabor). Controversial on Howard Stern, headline grabbing, running for governor, buying the Buffalo Bills, etc., etc. No one really took him seriously. To his credit, he was talented at buying and selling real estate and marketing himself, creating the Trump "brand". When he ran for president no one took it seriously---except for the media. To everyones surprise, he won election. My wife is a "never Trump-ster", I consider myself a "sometimes Trump-ster". I see his accomplishing things I had no idea he was capable of doing, much to my surprise. I do wish he wouldn't talk but can't help feeling he feels compelled to continue promoting his "brand". Whatever. I will defend him when he is misquoted (he makes this challenging) and speak out when he sayings inappropriate comments (he makes this easy). I have done the same for any public figure, as I have with Al Gore and Barack Obama. This is why I don't really have any hard core liberal or conservative friends. I am prepare to be verbally sliced and diced

 

[grasping the after wind]

The one thing that a Christian is commanded to do is to love. Unfortunately figuring out how to express that love is not easy. When I seriously consider what I ought to do to love my neighbor, I do not think I can place the welfare of one neighbor above the welfare of any other neighbor. So using force to insist that one neighbor subsidize another seems wrong to me and a great evil. If I want one neighbor to help another( seeing as I am not capable of helping every neighbor myself) , the best way for me to attempt to have that come to pass is for me to convince as many neighbors as possible that loving one's neighbor the right thing to do. So convince the poor man that he needs to love the rich man and the rich man that he needs to love the poor man .Convince the immigrant that he needs to love the native born as well as the native born needs to love the immigrant. Convince the pregnant mother and the man who helped conceive that the child is their neighbor and deserves love from them. Making laws to force people to act as if they love without them actually loving is not the way to go. That is the way of the worldly. Christ did not command us to subsidize our neighbor or to enable our neighbor to act irresponsibly or to force our neighbor to act responsibly: He commanded us to love our neighbor. We are being dishonest if we claim to be loving one neighbor by forcing another neighbor to do the actual deed that is supposed to show our love. That is selfishly satisfying our own desire to be seen as righteous and is not truly loving at all.