Thoughts on Christians who attend a church of a liberal religion?

[Silmarien]

This is a procedure to join any organization, but a religion. A religion MUST have a doctrine and there will be some dos and don'ts about the faith.

A Christian, a Muslim and a Buddhist can all come to join the UU "without" denouncing their faith. What a religion is the UU? A joke.

Quakers have no set doctrine, and that's still a religious path, and usually a Christian one. And once you start dealing with Eastern religions, things also get much more flexible.

To me, Unitarian Universalism is the church of secular humanism. It kind of feels like the opposite of "spirituality without religion." Pure social gospel, no religious doctrines attached. I visited for a couple weeks before finally going back to Christianity and definitely would have no problem dropping by from time to time depending on who's giving the service and what it's about.

 

[Cearbhall]

This is a procedure to join any organization, but a religion. A religion MUST have a doctrine and there will be some dos and don'ts about the faith.

No, doctrine is not an inherent part of religion. That's just the type of religion that you're used to. Religion is a much broader category than you think. Many religions have doctrines, but not all.

A Christian, a Muslim and a Buddhist can all come to join the UU "without" denouncing their faith. What a religion is the UU? A joke.

If that's how you see it, then it's not for you. That doesn't make it a joke.

 

[Thursday]

First, for anyone not familiar with the term, a liberal religion is one that is based on fellowship and personal development rather than creed. There are no required beliefs or practices other than supporting others in their journey. It has nothing to do with politics or Liberal Christianity.

I was raised Catholic and left the Christian faith in high school. I now identify as Unitarian Universalist. When I learned more about it and found a local congregation, the only thing that struck me as a bit odd is that there are members who follow theistic organized religions. Because UU is a liberal religion, a person can be both Christian and UU, for example.

I'm curious about what Christians who attend Christian churches on a regular basis might have to say about this. From a Christian perspective, do you feel that they may as well not be going to church at all? Or would you say it's good that they're at least participating in a spiritual community and learning about issues of social justice?

Do you think that it might be a reflection of the failings of Christian churches and other faith groups in their communities, or do you think that these people have a responsibility to stick with their own and try to improve their respective religious groups from within, rather than leaving?

Thanks in advance.

To paraphrase GK Chesterton:

We don't need a Church that is right when we are right, we need a Church that is right when we are wrong.

and,

The proper method for choosing a Church is to find the Church that is true and believe what it teaches rather than find a Church with which you agree then join that Church.

 

[juvenissun]

No, doctrine is not an inherent part of religion. That's just the type of religion that you're used to. Religion is a much broader category than you think. Many religions have doctrines, but not all.

If that's how you see it, then it's not for you. That doesn't make it a joke.

So, a religion to you may not have a god, neither a doctrine.
I won't call it a religion.
The worse part of UU is: it has no god for itself, but has many incompatible gods from everywhere else. It is really a theological joke.

 

[Cearbhall]

To paraphrase GK Chesterton:

We don't need a Church that is right when we are right, we need a Church that is right when we are wrong.

I agree, but that's functionally the same thing. If you're wrong about something, and the Church disagrees with you on it, you'll probably think you're right and they're misguided. You'll think you're in the wrong place and that you need to find a Church that is right.

The proper method for choosing a Church is to find the Church that is true and believe what it teaches rather than find a Church with which you agree then join that Church.

Again, this is exactly the same in practice. If I agree with something, it's because I think it's true. I don't possess a certain opinion or belief for nothing. Everyone chooses a religion and a church based on what they believe to be true.

Though, as I've explained, this doesn't exactly apply to liberal religions. UU is more of a tool kit for finding truth. It doesn't try to tell you what the truth is.

So, a religion to you may not have a god, neither a doctrine.
I won't call it a religion.

Well, that's fine. You're free to do that. I'll continue to use the proper terminology.

The worse part of UU is: it has no god for itself, but has many incompatible gods from everywhere else. It is really a theological joke.

I'm sorry you can't see the beauty of it.

 

[Silmarien]

To paraphrase GK Chesterton:

We don't need a Church that is right when we are right, we need a Church that is right when we are wrong.

and,

The proper method for choosing a Church is to find the Church that is true and believe what it teaches rather than find a Church with which you agree then join that Church.

I think needing a church that is right when you are wrong means needing a church that will challenge you morally instead of letting you sink into a sort of self-satisfied complacency. That's more a matter of the personalities in the church in question than the specific religion. If a church is trying to tell you that something is right which you think is wrong, or vice versa, you're not going to recognize truth there. If it's telling you that you're not living up to your own ideals or are otherwise being hypocritical, you'll hopefully pay attention.

 

[Thursday]

I think needing a church that is right when you are wrong means needing a church that will challenge you morally instead of letting you sink into a sort of self-satisfied complacency. That's more a matter of the personalities in the church in question than the specific religion. If a church is trying to tell you that something is right which you think is wrong, or vice versa, you're not going to recognize truth there. If it's telling you that you're not living up to your own ideals or are otherwise being hypocritical, you'll hopefully pay attention.

I disagree. I think it is a matter of finding the Church Jesus started, which he promised that the Holy Spirit would lead into all truth and that the gates of Hell would not prevail against. I don't believe that the Church of Jesus teaches any false doctrines.

 

[Silmarien]

I disagree. I think it is a matter of finding the Church Jesus started, which he promised that the Holy Spirit would lead into all truth and that the gates of Hell would not prevail against. I don't believe that the Church of Jesus teaches any false doctrines.

So... is that Catholicism or Orthodoxy?

Too many crimes have been committed in Christ's name over the centuries for me to believe that any church is infallible. If a good tree can't bear bad fruit, no Christian tradition is above reproach. Though I do prefer Catholicism to many Protestant branches.

 

[com7fy8]

a liberal religion is one that is based on fellowship and personal development rather than creed.

Hi, Clearbhall God bless you I am Bill

Christianity is personal, but with God creating in each person all which He desires, and we have creeds which clarify what is of God and what is not . . . standards. The result is the same: how we become like Jesus, more and more, the way His love cures our nature. There is plenty of scripture which talks about this, in the form of description plus commands which fit with how God changes us to become pleasing to Him like His Son Jesus is so pleasing to Him.

So, for God, this is very personal, for Him!

do you feel that they may as well not be going to church at all?

They need to be with others whom our Heavenly Father is changing to become like Jesus. We help one another. We are not only copy-catting activities in church.

would you say it's good that they're at least participating in a spiritual community and learning about issues of social justice?

We need how God's love makes us strong and stable so we can help with social justice, without being hurt and broken by how things are so wrong in this world. People can break down, in their own egos. And Jesus says, "without Me you can do nothing," in John 15:5.

People do not need only outward reform of culture. We need how God in us corrects and cures our character so we can share in real love with Him and with one another.

Do you think that it might be a reflection of the failings of Christian churches and other faith groups in their communities,

There are groups who are wrong; and churches can have example leaders but people in their churches can be wrong, somehow. We need to become strong in Jesus love so we can tell the difference between whom God has us trust and others whom we should not trust. Also, we need to have love's "longsuffering" (Ephesians 4:2) ready in case even the good example people at times will be wrong.

do you think that these people have a responsibility to stick with their own and try to improve their respective religious groups from within, rather than leaving?

You can still reach to ones who are not with you. But we need our example leaders and others who help us.

 

[Cearbhall]

Hi, Clearbhall God bless you I am Bill

Hi Bill! Thank you for your thoughtful responses to each part of my post!

 

[com7fy8]

You are welcome, Clearbhall

 

[FireDragon76]

No, doctrine is not an inherent part of religion. That's just the type of religion that you're used to. Religion is a much broader category than you think. Many religions have doctrines, but not all.

This is very true. Something that I occasionally take issue with in the Lutheran church, which focuses a great deal on doctrine. Most non-western religions, and even some western ones like the UU or the Quakers, focus more on practice as the defining characteristic.

Bonhoeffer was mentioned previously, I think he is a good example of a Christian (a Lutheran even) who refused to merely make his faith a matter of doctrine alone. There is a risk of compartmentalization of our lives, putting God in a temple built by human hands or in a set of doctrines or a holy book, then shutting him up the rest of our time, feeling justified in doing so by our doctrine. But this really represents an artifact of the Constastinian shaping of the Christian religion. For the earliest Christians, doctrine was a means to an end.