Thoughts on Christians who attend a church of a liberal religion?

[Radagast]

Because UU is a liberal religion, a person can be both Christian and UU, for example.

Not really. Christianity and UU are different religions.

 

[Cearbhall]

Christianity and UU are different religions.

Yes. That does not contradict what I said.

 

[daleksteve]

On one hand, if someone hates, he/she has went against Christianity. On the other hand, coming from a communist background, some "social justice" ideas (not all) actually did much more harm to the poor (and to everyone), just look how much people the communist in Russia/China killed in the name of helping the poor.

If you look at the Bible, many verses by the prophets decries how God listens to the widows and orphans, and that the biggest law is to love your neighbors as yourself. But there is also a specific verse says that you have to be fair, and you should not be unjust to a person either because he is poor or rich.

Jesus also said.

It's hard for a rich man to enter heaven's kingdom. Let me say it again, it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven's kingdom.

 

[dcalling]

Jesus also said.

It's hard for a rich man to enter heaven's kingdom. Let me say it again, it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven's kingdom.

I agree with you, the Bible also says the love of money is the root of all evil.

What we need to remember is, since we are all sinners, we have to try our best not to judge others, because if we are the rich we most likely won't do much better. God put more power to some people, and who ever have more power can screw up easier, and will eventually have to face God.

It is evident that most power changes does not produce better results, the power switch in 20 century Russia/China have proven distastes (just compare the % of people killed to countries that under Christianity), and once the power switch is done, it is the same old same old. My conclusion is most "good idea" that without the backing of God is usually a disaster.

 

[daleksteve]

I agree with you, the Bible also says the love of money is the root of all evil.

What we need to remember is, since we are all sinners, we have to try our best not to judge others, because if we are the rich we most likely won't do much better.
.

Wealthy Christians who don't help the poor are are a disgrace. It shows that that they love money above god because if they truly loved God first then they would want to open the wallet and help those who need it.

Christians also need to be a champion for social change but sadly that's no longer the case anymore. American Christians seem to think that curbing gay rights and banning abortion is more important.

 

[ViaCrucis]

First, for anyone not familiar with the term, a liberal religion is one that is based on fellowship and personal development rather than creed. There are no required beliefs or practices other than supporting others in their journey. It has nothing to do with politics or Liberal Christianity.

I was raised Catholic and left the Christian faith in high school. I now identify as Unitarian Universalist. When I learned more about it and found a local congregation, the only thing that struck me as a bit odd is that there are members who follow theistic organized religions. Because UU is a liberal religion, a person can be both Christian and UU, for example.

I'm curious about what Christians who attend Christian churches on a regular basis might have to say about this. From a Christian perspective, do you feel that they may as well not be going to church at all? Or would you say it's good that they're at least participating in a spiritual community and learning about issues of social justice?

Do you think that it might be a reflection of the failings of Christian churches and other faith groups in their communities, or do you think that these people have a responsibility to stick with their own and try to improve their respective religious groups from within, rather than leaving?

Thanks in advance.

I don't know know that it's any different then, say, being a Muslim and attending mosque or a Jew attending synagogue. That is, it's a different religion and so the "Christian opinion" on that is largely doing to depend on the "Christian opinion" on such other things.

I don't really have any particular feelings in regard to Muslims attending mosque, that is, I don't have an opinion on the matter one way or the other. I recognize that it is part of their religious tradition and respect that.

The way that the UU has moved, in particular away from any kind of Christian confession, I would consider it an entirely different religion than Christianity, and so someone who is UU attending a UU church is the same as, I'd say, a Muslim attending mosque.

I have no reason to be against it, it's just part of the practice of being part of that religion. If you get something from it, then more power to you.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Cearbhall]

I agree with you, the Bible also says the love of money is the root of all evil.

Just to be clear, you're suggesting that the desire for social welfare and justice is just poor people having a love of money?

 

[ViaCrucis]

I agree with you, the Bible also says the love of money is the root of all evil.

What we need to remember is, since we are all sinners, we have to try our best not to judge others, because if we are the rich we most likely won't do much better. God put more power to some people, and who ever have more power can screw up easier, and will eventually have to face God.

It is evident that most power changes does not produce better results, the power switch in 20 century Russia/China have proven distastes (just compare the % of people killed to countries that under Christianity), and once the power switch is done, it is the same old same old. My conclusion is most "good idea" that without the backing of God is usually a disaster.

Which is why avarice is one of the seven deadly sins in Christian tradition. Charity (caritas, agape love), on the other hand, is not just one of the seven virtues, not just one of the three theological virtues (faith, hope, and love) it is the chief of the virtues, "the greatest of these is love". And the western social justice tradition is rooted, intrinsically, to the historic virtues and ethics of the Christian Church. When one opposes social justice, one is not opposing some "worldly idea", they are opposing the core ethical teachings of Jesus, the Apostles, and the Christian religion as a whole.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[dcalling]

Wealthy Christians who don't help the poor are are a disgrace. It shows that that they love money above god because if they truly loved God first then they would want to open the wallet and help those who need it.

Christians also need to be a champion for social change but sadly that's no longer the case anymore. American Christians seem to think that curbing gay rights and banning abortion is more important.

First, anyone who love money above God are sinners, there are just different degrees, and it is not for us to judge (we don't know how much they helped or not helped).

Second, it really depend on what kind of social changes:
1. If it is clearly for God (i.e. anti slavery), yes Christians should be (and there are famous British Pastors and Christian paraliment members who are banned from America or shunned by their colleges since they are against slavery, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_Trade_Act_1807 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Spurgeon).

2. If it is not so clear (lower/higher taxes, minimum wage, etc), just pray that our leaders make their best judgement.

3. If it is clearly anti-God, i.e. forced confiscation of properties in the name of justice, then the answer is definitely no.

Social justice can be dangers, in a blink of an eye, what is supposed to be LGBT rights turned into man in woman's bathrooms, or you lost all your livelihood by refuse to sale a wedding cake (even though all other cakes are OK).

 

[dcalling]

Just to be clear, you're suggesting that the desire for social welfare and justice is just poor people having a love of money?

No, I mean exactly what the scripture means, the love of money is the root of all evil (which is neutral to all).

It is God who bless the rich and poor with what they have, the poor should not covet the rich, and the rich has the burden of helping the poor, of course as humans what often happens is the poor covet the rich and the rich try to get richer by all means even to offend God. All the evil things come from the above.

 

[dcalling]

Which is why avarice is one of the seven deadly sins in Christian tradition. Charity (caritas, agape love), on the other hand, is not just one of the seven virtues, not just one of the three theological virtues (faith, hope, and love) it is the chief of the virtues, "the greatest of these is love". And the western social justice tradition is rooted, intrinsically, to the historic virtues and ethics of the Christian Church. When one opposes social justice, one is not opposing some "worldly idea", they are opposing the core ethical teachings of Jesus, the Apostles, and the Christian religion as a whole.

-CryptoLutheran

That is very true. The only addition I would like to add is, if you take "social justice" but leave God out of it, then "social justice" can cause horrible things, just look at the old communist states, for the reason that we are all sinners, and replace one sinner with another is no use.

 

[Cearbhall]

the poor should not covet the rich

I agree. No one was suggesting that they should. The topic was social justice.

That is very true. The only addition I would like to add is, if you take "social justice" but leave God out of it, then "social justice" can cause horrible things, just look at the old communist states

So you think I shouldn't engage in social justice because I don't believe in God?

 

[ViaCrucis]

That is very true. The only addition I would like to add is, if you take "social justice" but leave God out of it, then "social justice" can cause horrible things, just look at the old communist states, for the reason that we are all sinners, and replace one sinner with another is no use.

I'm not sure how one can interpret the Stalinist and Maoist regimes as engaging in social justice; these were totalitarian regimes that resulted in the most powerful having most and the poor with little to nothing.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[dcalling]

I agree. No one was suggesting that they should. The topic was social justice.

So you think I shouldn't engage in social justice because I don't believe in God?

No, I what I meant is we should be very careful in engage in social justice. Good examples of social justice are how MLK did it, bad examples are the communist uprisings that killed scores.

 

[dcalling]

I'm not sure how one can interpret the Stalinist and Maoist regimes as engaging in social justice; these were totalitarian regimes that resulted in the most powerful having most and the poor with little to nothing.

-CryptoLutheran

They started by doing social justice, i.e. the workers are not getting paid well, then the peasants are not treated well by the landlords, then later the armed uprisings, later the forced or corsed confiscations, and last once they are in power everything is the same, see how the party leaders lived their lifes. This extends all atheists, not just communists, see the French revolution, it became so chaotic that they welcome back an emperor.

 

[FireDragon76]

It's important to note at the time MLK was alive, his views and actions were considered controversial among the majority of Protestants in the US: he was considered a dangerous radical by a great many white Americans.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I'd also add that MLK is still controversial today; he's been highly sanitized. MLK, if taken seriously today, would still offend.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[dcalling]

I'd also add that MLK is still controversial today; he's been highly sanitized. MLK, if taken seriously today, would still offend.

-CryptoLutheran

What did he say that is even controversial today? I could understand at the time they might be (Even Charles Spurgeon, the famous English preacher, had his books burned in US due to his anti slavery stance).

 

[seashale76]

First, for anyone not familiar with the term, a liberal religion is one that is based on fellowship and personal development rather than creed. There are no required beliefs or practices other than supporting others in their journey. It has nothing to do with politics or Liberal Christianity.

I was raised Catholic and left the Christian faith in high school. I now identify as Unitarian Universalist. When I learned more about it and found a local congregation, the only thing that struck me as a bit odd is that there are members who follow theistic organized religions. Because UU is a liberal religion, a person can be both Christian and UU, for example.

I'm curious about what Christians who attend Christian churches on a regular basis might have to say about this. From a Christian perspective, do you feel that they may as well not be going to church at all? Or would you say it's good that they're at least participating in a spiritual community and learning about issues of social justice?

Do you think that it might be a reflection of the failings of Christian churches and other faith groups in their communities, or do you think that these people have a responsibility to stick with their own and try to improve their respective religious groups from within, rather than leaving?

Thanks in advance.

Such Christians have separated/excommunicated themselves from the Church. One can't take the Eucharist in a non-Christian environment- and the Church is all about Communion.

 

[Cearbhall]

Such Christians have separated/excommunicated themselves from the Church. One can't take the Eucharist in a non-Christian environment- and the Church is all about Communion.

Thank you for your response. Do you feel the same about Christians who do not attend any church services?