Thoughts about judging, asking for forgiveniss, good deeds

JimBeta

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Please forgive me if I wrote not in proper English, my native language is Dutch...

Reflections of a Christian part 2

Many people seek judgment in what another person does. They focus on someone else with their eyes, but they themselves miss many things. It is logical that after a while they no longer see this, because their eyes are always only aimed at another. When I look to the left and things happen to the right of me, I can never see that. We should focus more on ourselves then on another. When we see another person sinning, then we should direct our eyes to ourselves. We should not bear judgments about the other, because then we judge only about ourselves, as it is written. That is pure truth. After all, we are all human beings. When we judge another person, we judge ourselves because we are human too. If we judge sins about another person, we only judge of that same sin, which may have a different expression in ourselves, in ourselves. It is true, it is written that we should point out another’s sin because it is better to do that then to keep silent because of love. I'm sorry, I cannot. My eyes are not focused, only on what others do, but also on what I do myself. I recommend to everyone, what is also written, that when one sees someone sinning one has to pray to God for the forgiveness of this sin. And God will then also forgive sin and give life to the person.

But in this time that is no longer important. It is no longer important that God forgives us. No, we prefer to emphasize sin in another than to pray for forgiveness. It is much more important to point others to sin in them than to pray for forgiveness for them. I cannot handle that. I think that is very fleshly behavior. There is nothing spiritual about that. Pointing to sin could be a good thing when it happens in complete and pure love. But that is not the case in this age. We cannot do that anymore. We are too far in the fleshly field. Sin has kept ugly in us, and where we may have had some kind of goodness in the past, I believe many people are so poisoned by the sins that even when they try, they can never do the right thing. They can do good, but it all has selfish reasons. There is no goodness in such acts, though one can make others feel good with it, there is only goodness in deeds that are unselfish. There is only goodness in those deeds, which do not bring anything on the table for ourselves. When I see others pointing to sin, I see what that degenerates into. It degenerates into a discussion between both parties, which does not suit anyone. Pointing to sin has become a weapon of evil. We would better stop that behaviour, because we cannot do it. We cannot do it because we do not have the right. There may be people who do have that right and so can do it, but 95% of those who do it, and all who I have seen it, cannot. Both parties focus on each other as devouring beasts. Which one beast thinks that it is bigger than the other beast. In reality, they are two beasts that think of nothing but the destruction of the other. Note, it may not always start that way, but that's how it ends. The moral of the truth is hard to find. The moral of truth is love. And if we cannot point to the sin of another, without showing understanding and love, then it is better that we pray for that person for forgiveness, because there is love and understanding in that.

So yes, it is written: it is better to point to sin than to keep silent from love, but I say: it is better to keep silent about the sin of another, to look at yourself and to harvest understanding. Knowing that you need forgiveness and then pray to God, for forgiveness of the other's sin. That is much better than taking the stick that evil puts before you. We should not pick up that stick and use it to hit another because the stick hits our self too each time. In this way we hit another, but each time the stick rebounds and we hit ourselves. We are destroying each other.
 
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Richard T

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I think you have it about right, leaning toward a non-judgemental position. It is easy if the person is a non-believer. No reason to judge, their biggest need is Jesus, though sometimes the negative consequences of sin open the door for God. As to believers, I too would not go looking or pointing out individual sins. If with a heart of love you want to help a brother in need, or the Holy Spirit is leading you to do something, then that is great. Still, if you know a believer that is in gross sin, you might consider this scripture from Paul. 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 (KJV)
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
 
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JimBeta

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I can not do that. I myself am I sinner, I should say those words also to myself then. I go out and get drunk once a week too. Do you now need to go away from me? I remember this passage that I shared somewhere else already:

Luke 18
9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

What I am trying to tell is that when we look at another, we should first look three times at ourself. Once we have done that, we will have no more reason to point out any sin because we will have harvest understanding. There are two things we can do, we can point the sin out or we can pray. I choose for the second way:

1 John 5
16If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

So yes, if you can point out the sin in a good way you should surely do that but the problem is that I do not find many, none exactly, that do it in the good way. There for it is better, I believe to pray for forgivenis for the person. But yes, I could be very wrong in this thinking I understand that.
 
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WESTOZZIE

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I think one of the things that fuels judgement of others is the idea that we can become more and more holy. The reasoning goes like this..."If I can stop sinning I will be more holy than before." Thus we see sin all the time, in ourselves and in others because that is our focus.....it is our focus because we want to be "more holy" for God....maybe so that we enter heaven or are used by God or have our prayers answered etc....
BUT...the Gospel declares that Christ has become unto us holiness. 1Cor 1:30 I think.
Jesus is ALL the holiness we will ever have. No amount of "not sinning" will make us any holier than Jesus' holiness imputed to us by the indwelling of Jesus Himself(Christ in us the hope of glory).
The Gospel is not about not sinning....but about having been(past tense)forgiven....having been made righteous(past tense)...having been justified....having already been made HOLY.
If we come to see that by faith, and rest in it, we stop judging ourselves as sinners...and stop seeing others that way too.
 
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JimBeta

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To be honest, I do not believe being Holy has to do with sinning. I believe that being Holy has to do with how close you are to God. So becoming Holy is not to become without sin, which is not possible I believe, but becoming close to God?
 
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WESTOZZIE

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Sure. For me, after many years of trying to get closer to God I came upon the realisation that I am one with God already by the work Jesus did for me on the cross and through His resurrection. "He that is joined to the Lord is one with Him" see 1 Cor 6:17 and Gal 2:20, Col 3:3....BY FAITH we believe these things...it is done, we are one with Jesus and "AS HE IS so are we in this world" IJn 4:17 ...but many times it is because we do not FEEL close to and so we deduce that we must not be close to God based on those feelings. Yet the WORD of God tells us we cannot get any closer than we are!! Not by what we do, but by His grace entirely.
 
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WESTOZZIE

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but in keeping with your original post Jim, judging others or seeing sin in others is not the New Covenant way as you said....Paul says (in 2 Cor 5:15 or 16 I think) about this that we no longer see others according to the flesh but according to the spirit...we are new creatures in Christ, washed in the blood constantly, made new completely, just and holy and righteous....we see like that by faith, not by sight...even if that person is "sinning" we refuse to look at them like that for that will not restore them to their spiritual walk but only condemn them
 
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Richard T

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I can not do that. I myself am I sinner, I should say those words also to myself then. I go out and get drunk once a week too. Do you now need to go away from me? I remember this passage that I shared somewhere else already:

I am not suggesting it is OK to get drunk once a week, but I doubt anyone considers you a drunkard if they were going to describe you. There must be some threshold though where one draws the line. I doubt any drunkard (myself included) would be good company for dinner anyway, as one would be hungover, craving a drink, or currently drinking.

I can say as you are meditating and relaying your faith, that is a good thing. Hope you can enjoy Christian forums.
 
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