Thou shalt not kill, or murder....?

[Neogaia777]

Thou shalt not kill, or murder...?

I think it is murder, and that, the difference is "murder" requires, "malicious intent" (Matthew 5:21-22)

Now most of us humans almost always have malicious intent involved in our killing, but, I do not think God has to...

Comments...?

God Bless!

 

[Another Lazarus]

Whether you intended to do it or not you'd better not do it.

 

[Zoii]

Hmm...I sure wrestle with that commandment given that God so frequently commissioned the murder of people, especially in the old testament.

Even now if you ask someone whats murder it would be easily defined....but just as easily mitigated and that mitigation supported by most christians.... eg youre a soldier, your defending yourself or your family, mistaken identity (eg someone breaking into your house so you shoot - oops its my wife), and the list could go on.

 

[com7fy8]

"Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15)

 

[Neogaia777]

"Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15)

The hatred is the malicious intent...

There is such a thing as a mercy killing that does not involve malicious intent...

 

[Soyeong]

Thou shalt not kill, or murder...?

I think it is murder, and that, the difference is "murder" requires, "malicious intent" (Matthew 5:21-22)

Now most of us humans almost always have malicious intent involved in our killing, but, I do not think God has to...

Comments...?

God Bless!

The difference between killing and murder is that murder is unlawful killing. The same Law that contains that command also prescribes capital punishment for some cases. In Leviticus 19:17, it commands not to hate our brother, so in Matthew 5:21-22, Jesus was simply expounding on that.

 

[com7fy8]

Now most of us humans almost always have malicious intent involved in our killing, but, I do not think God has to...

Hmm...I sure wrestle with that commandment given that God so frequently commissioned the murder of people, especially in the old testament.

Well, the Bible does not say that God ordered the murder of anyone. And there are capital offenses, in the Law of Moses which God gave; plus, if people do certain wrong things, they are "deserving of death", our Apostle Paul does say, in Romans 1:18-32. And we are warned not to mess with authorities; because they do not "bear the sword in vain" > Romans 13:1-7, including >

"For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil."

But I see this can mean how God uses secular people to do justice to evil doers, while we Christians specialize in love and mercy and compassion and forgiveness, with Jesus on the cross >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

youre a soldier

There are cases when a soldier has wrongly killed people.

your defending yourself or your family

It is possible to prepare to defend yourself, but your preparation can result in harm to your own family. An example you give >

mistaken identity

But, in the earlier scriptures, we have an example of accidental death not being guilty of punishment > Deuteronomy 19:4-6.

 

[com7fy8]

There is such a thing as a mercy killing that does not involve malicious intent...

It depends on what you mean by "mercy killing". And people can claim not to have malicious intent, but this does not automatically mean they don't. If they are malicious against God, they can feel they have the right to decide when and how to kill people.

 

[Tolworth John]

but, I do not think God has to...

What do you mean by this comment?

Regarding 'murder and killing' we make a distinction between lawfull taking of a life and unlawfull taking of life. Murder is the unlawfull taking of human life. Killing is lawfull, either because it is in battle, it is in selfdefence, an accident or an exceution.

Where this gets muddled is when society goes away from Gods rules in order to permit abortion on demand, infantcide, euthanasia etc

 

[football5680]

It would be murder and I would define this as unlawful killing of somebody else. Their intent can be taken into consideration but it is not always the deciding factor.

 

[Zoii]

I recognize that much of the murder commissioned by God was in fact an order to execute someone for crimes.... But (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB) he commisions the execution of every non-believer, (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT) demands the execution of the whole town if one person worships another God, In Genesis wipes out the entire human race because some were wicked (wicked isnt defined) and that included children, Demands that women who arent virgins on their wedding night be stoned, (Romans 1:24-32 NLT) commissions the execution of infidels and gays; (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT) demands death for anyone working the sabbath, (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB) excuted 42 children who were teasing a prophet by calling him "bald head"; lots of examples of ethnic cleansing.... Ok need I go on (and I can).

If those executions were to occur today, the person commissioning them would themselves be arrested. Christians would condem the person who gave the order.... yet here we are - God ordered it...Surely you get why I struggle with this commandment and the seeming contradictions.

 

[Neogaia777]

The difference between killing and murder is that murder is unlawful killing. The same Law that contains that command also prescribes capital punishment for some cases. In Leviticus 19:17, it commands not to hate our brother, so in Matthew 5:21-22, Jesus was simply expounding on that.

What is unlawful killing but killing with malicious intent and feelings in your heart, or killing because of those feelings...?

 

[Neogaia777]

What do you mean by this comment?

Regarding 'murder and killing' we make a distinction between lawfull taking of a life and unlawfull taking of life. Murder is the unlawfull taking of human life. Killing is lawfull, either because it is in battle, it is in selfdefence, an accident or an exceution.

Where this gets muddled is when society goes away from Gods rules in order to permit abortion on demand, infantcide, euthanasia etc

I still think it was what was in the person's heart when they killed, that makes it sin or not...

God Bless!

 

[Tolworth John]

I still think it was what was in the person's heart when they killed, that makes it sin or not...

God Bless!

So when terified by an intruder someone reacts with anger to defend themselves and kills that intruder.
Because they had anger in their heart you would call it a sinful act?

We could go on for hours inventing situations that show this act was sinful or that act wasn't.

I'm a great believer in K.I.S.S.

If we obey both societies laws and God's laws we won't be accused of breaking this laws.

 

[Neogaia777]

So when terified by an intruder someone reacts with anger to defend themselves and kills that intruder.
Because they had anger in their heart you would call it a sinful act?

We could go on for hours inventing situations that show this act was sinful or that act wasn't.

I'm a great believer in K.I.S.S.

If we obey both societies laws and God's laws we won't be accused of breaking this laws.

If, you killed someone in self-defense, and get angry in self-defense to do it, that anger was sinful, but, that is my problem with law, their always seems to be a circumstance where a general rule or law is actually unjust instead of just... Where something normally or still considered to be sin, could actually be just and not a sin...?

Also, does God want us killing even in self-defense, or if it is kill or be killed, does he expect us for ourselves to allow us to be the one killed...?

God's morality is not as clear cut as any general rule or law it seems...

God Bless!

 

[Tolworth John]

and get angry in self-defense to do it, that anger was sinful,

Not all anger is sinful.
Jesus was angry that his Father's house of prayer had been turned into a market place.
Anger at injustice, cruelty, a lack of compassion/love is not automaticly wrong/sinful.

 

[LionL]

Thou shalt not kill - Simple
Love thine enemy as thyself - Clear as day

 

[Tolworth John]

Thou shalt not kill - Simple
Love thine enemy as thyself - Clear as day

Except in the 16 centuary Killing meant unlawfull killing or murder. So the command is do not murder.

While we are told to literaly turn the other cheek, that is in regard to perscution and say nothing about an intruder attacking you in your home, or about how one should behave if employed as an armed guard etc

 

[LionL]

Except in the 16 centuary Killing meant unlawfull killing or murder. So the command is do not murder.

Can you verify this with sources? Which word actually meant kill in 16th Century England then?

While we are told to literaly turn the other cheek, that is in regard to perscution

In your opinion. I believe it refers to all circumstances.

...and say nothing about an intruder attacking you in your home, or about how one should behave if employed as an armed guard etc

No specific scenarios are mentioned. In my book that means the rule applies in all situations.

 

[ambc]

Thou shalt not kill, or murder...?

I think it is murder, and that, the difference is "murder" requires, "malicious intent" (Matthew 5:21-22)

Now most of us humans almost always have malicious intent involved in our killing, but, I do not think God has to...

Comments...?

God Bless!

When the Bible says "thou shalt not kill," the proper word is actually murder. If killing under all circumstances weren't allowed, that would mean a Christian US soldier during WWII wouldn't be allowed to kill Nazis and save the world from evil.