those that do not believe in being born again

[ml5363]

I was reviewing some different links today..came across a neat video on 20 scriptures that christians tend to leave out..or forget about..most was find..but the one about how christians being born again was an untruth...that we will not receive the holy spirit until he returns and we will see heaven...just curious how those that believe this explain the experience (that I personally experienced when be saved) of when a person goes thru roman road in bible and confesses sin..ask god to forgive them and into their heart..how do you explain this transformation, this change in spirit, the feeling of newness (that was not in my head) or how do you explain the sensation of feeling him in my life almost daily?

 

[Job8]

I was reviewing some different links today..came across a neat video on 20 scriptures that christians tend to leave out..or forget about..most was find..but the one about how christians being born again was an untruth...

Anyone who teaches that the New Birth is not an absolute necessity to see or enter the Kingdom of God is a liar and a false teacher. Just ignore them and believe what the Bible says (John 3:1-8):

1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

[ml5363]

Anyone who teaches that the New Birth is not an absolute necessity to see or enter the Kingdom of God is a liar and a false teacher. Just ignore them and believe what the Bible says (John 3:1-8):

1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

this man was affiliated with church of god...also have read similiar views from catholics...so was wanted to hear more of this side...

 

[Job8]

this man was affiliated with church of god...also have read similiar views from catholics...so was wanted to hear more of this side...

Catholics mistakenly believe that water baptism gives a person the New Birth. As to Church of God, there are many different kinds of "Church of God".

 

[ml5363]

Catholics mistakenly believe that water baptism gives a person the New Birth. As to Church of God, there are many different kinds of "Church of God".

they also baptize babies, so do they think the babies receive holy spirit? I just can't understand how one can follow the logic of believing and following someone but yet not receive the holy spirit until their death?!

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Being born again should really be understood of as being "born from above" which the Gospel of John seems to suggest means being a "child of God"; being born of water and spirit, receiving the baptism. The reference to water and spirit also seems to connote Genesis 1 wherein the Spirit of God blew over the face of the deep, so the idea of being born of water and spirit seems also to suggest a new creation. In Baptism the Holy Spirit descends upon the new Christian (i.e. the infant) and makes the new Christian a new Creation.

 

[ml5363]

Being born again should really be understood of as being "born from above" which the Gospel of John seems to suggest means being a "child of God"; being born of water and spirit, receiving the baptism. The reference to water and spirit also seems to connote Genesis 1 wherein the Spirit of God blew over the face of the deep, so the idea of being born of water and spirit seems also to suggest a new creation. In Baptism the Holy Spirit descends upon the new Christian (i.e. the infant) and makes the new Christian a new Creation.

how can an infant be a new christian? he is a baby ? are not old enough to know right and wrong yet.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Being born again should really be understood of as being "born from above" which the Gospel of John seems to suggest means being a "child of God"; being born of water and spirit, receiving the baptism. The reference to water and spirit also seems to connote Genesis 1 wherein the Spirit of God blew over the face of the deep, so the idea of being born of water and spirit seems also to suggest a new creation. In Baptism the Holy Spirit descends upon the new Christian (i.e. the infant) and makes the new Christian a new Creation.

The problem, of course, with this perspective is that it does not work out in real life. Most babies that go through the process of baptism grow up to be regular sinners with not the slightest evidence of having ever become a Christian. Thus, the Catholic view becomes one in which baptism makes a baby a temporary Christian - that is, temporary until he or she is able to cooperate with God and do all the works necessary to secure salvation. How many works are required we may well ask? It is an unknown number and only a miniscule number of humans have been elevated to sainthood, having met the requirements. For the rest of Catholics there is the hope of Purgatory where, after death, they will be tortured and tormented to rid them of all their temporal sins.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

how can an infant be a new christian? he is a baby ? are not old enough to know right and wrong yet.

Baptism is a Sacrament not just an ordinance and it exists in place of circumcision.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

The problem, of course, with this perspective is that it does not work out in real life. Most babies that go through the process of baptism grow up to be regular sinners with not the slightest evidence of having ever become a Christian. Thus, the Catholic view becomes one in which baptism makes a baby a temporary Christian - that is, temporary until he or she is able to cooperate with God and do all the works necessary to secure salvation. How many works are required we may well ask? It is an unknown number and only a miniscule number of humans have been elevated to sainthood, having met the requirements. For the rest of Catholics there is the hope of Purgatory where, after death, they will be tortured and tormented to rid them of all their temporal sins.

What evidence is there that someone has become a Christian? In the Catholic life we are born into the Church, receive the Eucharist upon confirmation and live our lives within the Church. It takes effort at every step.

 

[ml5363]

What evidence is there that someone has become a Christian? In the Catholic life we are born into the Church, receive the Eucharist upon confirmation and live our lives within the Church. It takes effort at every step.

an evidence of being christian is one of being different, trying to do what is right..following jesus...which we are not perfect by any means...when I accepted christ as my saviour I was different...I try to be like him everyday..and many days I fail, but I keep trying, learning, praying, praising, and loving him..

 

[Job8]

how can an infant be a new christian? he is a baby ? are not old enough to know right and wrong yet.

Correct. A sinner needs to (a) be able to hear and understand the Gospel, (b) recognize that he is a sinner, (c) repent, by turning away from their sins and idols, and turning to Christ, (d) believe that Jesus is indeed the Son of God (the God-Man) who died for his sins and rose again for his justification, and (e) receive Christ as his own personal Lord and Saviour. A baby is totally incapable of responding to the Gospel.

 

[Job8]

What does it mean to be "born of water"? "Water" is used as a metaphor for the Word of God, and since the Gospel is indeed the Word of God, one is born again through the "seed" of the Gospel (1 Pet 1:23-25):

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

an evidence of being christian is one of being different, trying to do what is right..following jesus...which we are not perfect by any means...when I accepted christ as my saviour I was different...I try to be like him everyday..and many days I fail, but I keep trying, learning, praying, praising, and loving him..

That sounds interesting. In Catholicism we believe that our devotion to the Church is our devotion to Christ. We believe that we are brought up, live our lives and die in communion with the Church. And this communion is our devotion to God as well.

 

[Julie.S]

You believe what you wan't in this life. Stick with what makes you feel close to God.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

We have to be born again in the baptismal womb of the Church in order to be brothers and sisters in Christ to each other.

 

[Job8]

We have to be born again in the baptismal womb of the Church in order to be brothers and sisters in Christ to each other.

"In the baptismal womb of the Church" is rather mystical and esoteric, and does not correspond to what is taught in the Gospel of John (and other Scriptures). Since the Church (the Body of Christ) came into existence sometime after Nicodemus was addressed (and it would seem that Nicodemus was born again), it should be evident that the New Birth is not as you have described.

 

[Landon Caeli]

"In the baptismal womb of the Church" is rather mystical

There is a very long tradition of mysticism in the Catholic Church, particularly among the Saints and doctors of the Church, such as St. Augustine, St. teresa of Avila, etc.

https://themysticsaints.wordpress.com/famous-catholic-mystics/

 

[Landon Caeli]

 

[ConquerorPlus]

Most pretenders reject justification by faith outright and even curse those who believe the be righteous in Christ before the Father. Wolves in sheep's clothing preach justification, but don't actually believe that Jesus restored the relationship with the Father. Beware!

Few will find the way!