Those loving terrorists

[solo66 man]

The terrorists hide behind women and children. They use suicide bombers to kill civilians. They have stated they want to drive the Jews into the sea. The Pope has claimed the Muslims worship the same God as we do. But the Muslims worship a satanic god. a moon god. In their own koran, they are insructed to lay in wait for Christians and Jews. To kill the infidels.

2/19/02
Palestinian gunmen killed six Israelis and wounded another on the West Bank Tuesday when they fired at personnel manning a military checkpoint.

Gunmen infiltrated the area and fired from a vantage point overlooking the Ein Arik checkpoint northwest of Ramallah, Israeli security sources said.

The shooting was the latest incident in a day that saw a new wave of violence spread across the West Bank and Gaza.

Ten Palestinians died in the violence, according to Palestinian sources: three were killed in suicide bombings or attempts to infiltrate Israeli areas; five were killed in Israeli airstrikes and raids; and two were killed when Palestinians exchanged gunfire with Israeli troops.

The Israeli cabinet will meet Wednesday to discuss its position in the wake of the latest violence.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has been under pressure from the Israeli right to take hard-line measures or launch an all-out war against the Palestinianians for the continued attacks.

Following weekend attacks, Sharon met with defense officials Monday night, but his spokesman said he decided not to change his policies. The Israeli government will not try to kill Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat or overthrow the Palestinian Authority, his spokesman said.

In earlier incidents Tuesday, a suicide bomber exploded a device at the entrance to the West Bank settlement of Mehola in the Jordan Valley, Israeli police said. The bomber was killed. There were no other injuries.

Witnesses said the Palestinian attempted to board a Jerusalem-to-Tiberias bus that had stopped at the settlement. They said the driver and several passengers threw him off and shut the door. The bomber then set off a belt packed with explosives.

Others died in a series of gunfights and Israeli retaliatory strikes in the West Bank and Gaza.

The string of incidents Tuesday followed two Palestinian suicide bombings Monday, one on the Kissufim Road, and another on a main road east of Jerusalem where a suicide bomber killed himself and an Israeli policemen when he blew up his car at a roadblock.

In a midday air strike Tuesday, Israeli helicopters fired missiles at a Hamas office in the Jebalya refugee camp in Gaza, Palestinian sources said. Palestinian sources said two people were killed and a 9-year-old girl was critically wounded.

A statement from Israel Defense Forces said the office was struck in response to the latest wave of terror attacks.

It was the third Israeli airstrike in less than 24 hours. Israeli F-16 warplanes attacked a building in Ramallah belonging to the special forces of the Palestinian police overnight, in response to Monday's deadly suicide bombing in Gaza, the Israeli army said.

The Palestine Red Crescent Society said there were no casualties.

At the same time, Palestinian sources said, Israeli warplanes hit a Force 17 building -- Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's special police -- and a Palestinian military intelligence building in Rafah, in Gaza. Three Palestinian policemen were injured in the shelling, Palestinian sources said.

In other violent incidents Tuesday:

-- Palestinian sources said one Palestinian was killed when he tried to infiltrate the Morag Jewish settlement in Gaza.

-- At Khan Yunis three Palestinians died -- among them a mother, Bariam Bahabsa, 40, and her daughter, Mona, 10 -- when a house was hit by an Israel tank shell. Six Palestinians were injured.

-- One Palestinian was shot and killed when the IDF said two Palestinians tried to infiltrate into the Netzer Hazani settlement in the Gaza. The IDF said the two opened fire on Israeli soldiers, who returned fire. Palestinian sources identified the Palestinian killed as Ali Abu Rukba, a member of the radical group Islamic Jihad.

-- In the West Bank, IDF forces operating near the city of Nablus exchanged fire with a group of armed Palestinians. According to the Red Crescent, two Palestinians were killed in the Balata refugee camp, including a 25-year-old woman and a 36-year-old man. The Red Crescent said three Palestinians were injured.

-- And, two Israelis were wounded when gunfire hit their car as they were driving near Tul Karem, the IDF said. They were evacuated to the hospital.

Tuesday's violence comes against a backdrop of increased activity by militant Palestinian groups. In addition to Monday's two suicide bombings, Israeli authorities said they had thwarted five Palestinian bombers in the previous 24 hours.

On Saturday, a Palestinian suicide bomber killed two Israelis at a shopping center in the West Bank Jewish settlement of Karnei Shomron -- the first such attack on a West Bank settlement

 

[solo66 man]

And then they act as if they are all innocent.

 

[Jany]

In agreement!

Everyday anymore, we keep seeing terrorist attacking Israel Why more people are not "up in arms" about this, is just sad <><

 

[strathyboy]

I think it is very sad what's happening over there. It's sad when both peoples seem to hate each other as much as the Israeli's and the Palestinians do. I notice that your quote was very very pro-Israeli. I must point out that the Israeli's do kill their share of Palestinians as well.

"In their own koran, they are insructed to lay in wait for Christians and Jews. To kill the infidels. "

Now I'm not defending the Koran here, but how many Muslims follow that to the letter?
Don't forget that we have a holy book that endorses slavery and says we should stone anyone who commits adultery, wears two different types of cloth together, or harvests their entire field without leaving the corners unharvested. You don't see the Christians of the world up in arms to defend those, do you?

Just trying to show that there's always another side to everything.

 

[solo66 man]

Originally posted by strathyboy
I think it is very sad what's happening over there. It's sad when both peoples seem to hate each other as much as the Israeli's and the Palestinians do. I notice that your quote was very very pro-Israeli. I must point out that the Israeli's do kill their share of Palestinians as well.

You see the problem is that every time the Israelis let up on the pressure, the Palestinians get worse with there attacks. Also, remember the Israelis are God's chosen people. It is no matter where you may think they stand with God today, that is an irrefutable fact. It is our duty, as being adopted into that very same family, we stand up for Israel. I say, and I feel as though God has put this into my heart, the day we stop supporting Israel,
is the day our total demise will come.

Originally posted by strathyboy
"In their own koran, they are insructed to lay in wait for Christians and Jews. To kill the infidels. "

Now I'm not defending the Koran here, but how many Muslims follow that to the letter?
Don't forget that we have a holy book that endorses slavery and says we should stone anyone who commits adultery, wears two different types of cloth together, or harvests their entire field without leaving the corners unharvested. You don't see the Christians of the world up in arms to defend those, do you?

Just trying to show that there's always another side to everything.

For one, the Levitical type of laws are for the Jew and not us as established in the New Testament. Then again, the OT does not
advocate continuously killing anyone not Jewish or Christian unless they convert. The Muslims have been on this path since their inception in 640 AD. Hence the European Crusaders once the Muslims had fought themselves into Spain. An they are still killing Christians who refuse to convert.

 

[billhabing]

If you are still shaken by the horrifying scenes of September 11, please observe a moment of silence for the 5,000 civilian lives lost in the New York, Washington, DC and Pennsylvania attacks.

While we're at it, let's have 13 minutes of silence for the 130,000 Iraqi civilians killed in 1991 by order of President Bush Sr. Take another moment to remember how Americans celebrated and cheered in the streets.

Now another 20 minutes of silence for the 200,000 Iranians killed by Iraqi soldiers using weapons and money provided to young Saddam Hussein by the American government before the great eagle turned all its power against Iraq.

Another 15 minutes of silence for the Russians and 150,000 Afghans killed by troups supported and trained by the CIA.

Plus 10 minutes of silence for 300,000 Japanese killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki by the Atomic bombs dropped by the USA.

We've just kept quiet for one hour: one minute for the Americans killed in NY, DC, and Pennsylvania, 59 minutes for their victims throughout the world.

If you are still in awe, let's have another hour of silence for all those killed in Vietnam, which is not something Americans like to admit. The US went to another continent thousands of miles away and burnt tens of thousands of Vietnamese peasants with napalm.

Or for the massacre in Panama in 1989, where American troops attacked poor villagers, leaving 20,000 Panamanians homeless and thousands more dead.

Or for the millions of children who have died because of the USA embargoes on Iraq and Cuba.

Or the hundreds of thousands brutally murdered throughout the world by US-sponsored civil wars and coups d'etat (Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, Bolivia, Guatemala, El Salvador to name a few).

Maybe, and although the memory of Americans claims otherwise, someone may remember the USA attack on Bagdad where 18,000 civilians were killed. Did someone see it on CNN? Was justice ever served? Or was there even any retaliation?

We hope that Americans finally begin to understand their vulnerability and the attacks and other tragedies that they have caused around the world.

The dead in other places hurt as much as the dead of the Towers, maybe even more!

What about the 560,000 Iraqi children (as per current UN data) who have died as a direct cause of the US supported sanctions against Iraq? Are these the children of a lessor God?

What about a new generation of nearly one million Iraqi children who are currently having their lives being ruined by improper nutrition, lack of medicine and inferior education because of US supported sanctions.

Now, let's talk about terrorism, shall we?

 

[strathyboy]

"Then again, the OT does not advocate continuously killing anyone not Jewish or Christian unless they convert. The Muslims have been on this path since their inception in 640 AD. Hence the European Crusaders once the Muslims had fought themselves into Spain. An they are still killing Christians who refuse to convert."

Don't forget that the European "God-inspired" Crusaders raped, pillaged, and murdered across Europe and all through the middle east. There were several massacres of Jews during the crusades.

 

[solo66 man]

Originally posted by strathyboy
"Then again, the OT does not advocate continuously killing anyone not Jewish or Christian unless they convert. The Muslims have been on this path since their inception in 640 AD. Hence the European Crusaders once the Muslims had fought themselves into Spain. An they are still killing Christians who refuse to convert."

Don't forget that the European "God-inspired" Crusaders raped, pillaged, and murdered across Europe and all through the middle east. There were several massacres of Jews during the crusades.

You come up with one example compared to ongoing murder since 640 AD by the Muslims.
Even the Spanish inquisition conducted by the Catholic Church and Spanish government was not as bad and they were killing Christians for reading the Bible.
It is not a precept in the bible to convert people through treat of death and slavery.

 

[strathyboy]

I understand what you're saying, and I understand that in the Koran certain things are commanded. What I am saying is that historically, Muslims were simply not that bad. Generally, they lived more or less at peace with Christians, meaning that the vast majority of Muslims had no real desire to go out and kill Christians and Jews.
For much of that time, don't forget, the Muslims were basically at war with the "Christians" of the Holy Roman Empire or other "Christian" nations. Some of their actions could also be justified as acts of war, not acts of religion.

 

[Deacon Dan]

Billhabing,
Although I applaude your notice of the many who have died or suffered around the world, I think it fair to note the "Rest of the Story" as well.
Lets have 13 minutes of praise for the millions of Iraq's who were spared from Saddam's poison gas attacks by attacks of President George Bush Sr. (note: it was a coalition of 33 nations, Bush is president of only one)
Fifteen minutes of praise for the Afghans who were liberated by the continued efforts of our country to repel the socialist advance into their country. Far many more Afgans would have suffered under the tyranny of socialism.
Ten minutes of praise for the millions of Japanese who were not bombed into submission by conventional means, as was attempted by both the Germans and Japanese during the same war. Not to mention, the many American soldiers who would have died to continue the conventional war.
Vietnam, well now that is a different story. We tied the hands of our own troops and is a good example of what happens when you fight a war on the enemy's terms. Unfortunately, more Vietnamese would have died and less Americans if the war had been handled correctly. Am I glad any died? No! War is Hell!
Don't know if you have ever been to Panama, but thousands were homeless before we went there. Many were liberated because of our actions there. No one attacked poor villagers, only poor soldiers.
As far as the embargo on Iraq and Cuba causing death, that isn't the case. We sent millions of dollars of humanitarian aid to both countries and they use it for their military instead of the poor millions of children you addressed.
In all the coups d'etat you addressed, the sponsoring of the opposition was to correct the coup d'etat that the socialist had begun.
Of the 18000 civilians you claim was killed in Bagdad, almost all were killed by the Iraqi military firing at random in the sky at nothing. Those shells gotta fall somewhere! Yes I did see that on CNN. I was also in Kuwait on the airstrip of Kuwait International Airport when CNN was there. How about the millions liberated there?
We have caused no attack anywhere around the world. But, and don't misunderstand me, we will respond to attacks as they occur! Anywhere Americans are attacked.
The dead in the towers were murdered! They were not casualties of war. They were murdered by the same type of people that were killed in most of the examples you have cited.
560,000 Iraqi children die at the hands of the madman who owns Iraq. Are they children of a lessor god? Yes or maybe, but that is a different discussion.
Now let's talk about terrorism shall we?
There is a significant differance between killing in defense and murdering for political gain, wealth and power. America could own most of the world if we operated under the same set of rules applied in ALL the countries you mentioned.
In short, God has blessed America! Hopefully, we will continue to share the blessing of freedom with those less fortunate.
Deacon Dan

 

[strathyboy]

From an interview about 2 years back...

Leslie Stahl, speaking of US sanctions against Iraq: "We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And -- and you know, is the price worth it?"
Madeline Albright: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price -- we think the price is worth it."

How would you view anyone who is willing to cause the death of 500,000 children to punish one man? Note that 500,000 is one of the lower estimates I have heard.

In Vietnam, between 1965 and 1972, the US dropped more bombs than had been dropped in the entirety of World War 2, by all nations involved. Of approximately 5320 hospitals in North Vietnam, 4000 were destroyed by US bombing. 58,000 civilians were confirmed dead in North Vietnam. Over 1 million Vietnamese soldiers died due to American bombing. When the US army was led by one who wanted to "bomb North Vietnam back to the stone age", how much do you think he cared about Vietnamese life?
And don't even get me started on the oppression and murder that went on under US supported dictators in South Vietnam before the War.

I would also be interested to hear your justification for Operation Mongoose and the Bay of Pigs.

It's great that America does do good in the world. But I think you must take all that good with a grain of salt, given some of the things the US has done in the past.

 

[tericl2]

Good post Deacon Dan.

Strathyboy,

I don't think anyone will argue that Vietnam was regettable. However, we were fighting Communism. Unfortunately, the conflict was fought politically instead of militarily which, in the end, always causes more casualties instead of less. We had the means to fight on the NVA's terms but refused to do so and in the instances it was allowed we won resounding victories. If the SEALs, Green Berets, and other speacial forces would have been allowed to operate, most casualties would have been military. But it wasn't the intent that was wrong in Vietnam, just the weak spineless politicians we had and the people (read traitors IMO) back home that didn't support our troops.

As for the Bay of Pigs...that was wrong. I will not argue that point. The U.S. gov't gave their word and then backed out. More proof that the generals should run the war and politics should be left out.

I don't know about Operation Mongoose so I can't comment on that.

 

[strathyboy]

"However, we were fighting Communism. "

Perhaps, but whether or not Ho Chi Minh was primarily communist or primarily nationalist is very much in debate. The NVA was indeed supplied by the USSR and China. But that was only because they had no one left to turn to. Allow me to explain what I mean.
After WW2, after the Vietnamese people had helped allied forces push the Japanese out of Vietnam, the French (who had ruled Vietnam as a colony for the previous century) decided to move back in. They took over the government, set up a puppet emperor, and continued to exploit the nation as is typical in colonail situations. Needless to say, this infuriated the Vietnamese. Ho Chi Minh appealed to the UN and the US for aid in this matter. The UN did nothing, since England and the other powers backed France. The US proceeded to give aid, including monetary and military support to the French. This is blatantly hypocritical for a few reasons. First, the US had vowed to fight colonialism since they themselves threw of the yoke of colonialism when they became a nation. In Vietnam, the US was blatantly supporting colonialism. Second, the US had been at the forefront in granting independence to nations such as Cambodia, Laos, Sri Lanka, etc. from the colonial powers. But they adamantly refused to support an independent Vietnam. Ho Chi Minh repeatedly reqested aid from the US, to no avail. He even dissolved the Vietnamese Communist Party, in an effort to appease the Americans to get their assistance.
So, in short, the US turned their backs on Vietnam in a very hypocritical way, and only then did Ho seek aid from the communists.

Operation Mongoose was an operation by the CIA designed to remove Castro from power in Cuba. The CIA burned crops, firebombed villages, and attempted to assassinate Castro on many different occasions.

 

[solo66 man]

March 2, 2002
Of course, the Palesitnians say it is the fault of the Israelis.

JERUSALEM — Three Israeli babies were among
the nine people killed Saturday night during a
suicide bombing in the narrow streets of an
ultra-Orthodox Jerusalem neighborhood.

Hundreds of Palestinians living nearby were reportedly celebrating the attack, an apparent retaliation for recent Israeli military infiltration into West Bank refugee camps.

In addition to the Palestinian bomber, at least eight Israelis were killed and at least 57 were wounded, four of them seriously, according to police and hospital officials.

As the Jewish Sabbath ended and residents poured from synagogues into the winding alleyways of Mea Shearim, the bomber set off explosives as he stood near a group of people, police said.

The thunderous blast was heard throughout downtown Jerusalem, and sent flames leaping into the air from a car that caught fire.

"I came right out (on the street) and saw a car on fire, the building next to it was also on fire," said witness Yitzhak Weinberger, 22.

Earlier, the explosion had been mistakenly identified by authorities as a car bomb. But Jerusalem police chief Mickey Levy said later it appeared to be the work of a suicide attacker.

"From a check of the cars, it seems it wasn't a car bomb, but a suicide bomber who approached a group of people," Levy said, describing the explosive as large.

With sirens wailing, ambulances and police cars rushed to Mea Shearim, an ultra-Orthodox neighborhood in west Jerusalem. It is just across a main road from Palestinian neighborhoods in east Jerusalem. Rescue workers carried the injured away on stretchers.

"I saw a car park. Then two minutes later I heard a blast," a witness, who gave his name only as David, told the radio.

Police did not immediately have additional details. Firefighters hosed down a smoking car that appeared to be the one used in the blast, according to an Associated Press reporter at the scene.

"This has nothing to do with warfare, this nothing to do with national liberation, this has to do with the murder of innocent Jews, coming back from their evening prayers," said Israeli government spokesman Dore Gold. "The state of Israel knows how to defend the people of Israel, and will do so."

Palestinians, meanwhile, have expressed outrage at Israel's military incursion into two West Bank refugee camps over the past three days, and Palestinian militants had vowed to respond with attacks.

 

[Crusader Abrahm]

push the palestinians into the arabian sea or we should push them into iraq

 

[layer3maniac]

The bloodthirsty Israeli Army is stepping up it's brutal state sponsored terrorism - murdering innocent men, women, and children. It's not enough for Israel to steal their country from the Palestinians, occupy any remaining Palestinian territories, build their settlements on Palestinian land, round them up into refugee camps, then chase them out, shoot them for resisting, subjugate them - use them for slave labor, tax them without giving them representation. Now they are actively butchering helpless people. Israel is a nation without integrity, morals, or even a rudimentary conscience. And they think they are God's chosen ones. What a JOKE! They are on the FAST TRACK to hell, and they deserve everything ugly that has and assuredly will happen to them...

 

[solo66 man]

Excuse me. Read the Bible . The Jews are God's chosen people and so are the Christians by way of adoption into the family of God. All others are outside our family.
That land was given to the Israelites some 3000 years ago.
It could be shared by them with the Plestinians, but they keep using their suicide bombers and snipers to kill the Jews. They fully intend to drive the Jews into the sea and have stated so.

 

[layer3maniac]

Originally posted by solo66 man
Excuse me. Read the Bible . The Jews are God's chosen people and so are the Christians by way of adoption into the family of God. All others are outside our family. That land was given to the Israelites some 3000 years ago.

Excuse ME! Read the Bible YOURSELF! If you do, you might realize what happened AFTER "some 3000 years ago"...

2 Kings 21:8-16
I will not again make the feet of the Israelites wander from the land I gave their forefathers, if only they will be careful to do everything I commanded them and will keep the whole Law that my servant Moses gave them." But the people did not listen. Manasseh led them astray, so that they did more evil than the nations the Lord had destroyed before the Israelites. The Lord said through his servants the prophets: "Manasseh king of Judah has committed these detestable sins. He has done more evil than the Amorites who preceded him and has led Judah into sin with his idols. Therefore this is what the Lord , the God of Israel, says: I am going to bring such disaster on Jerusalem and Judah that the ears of everyone who hears of it will tingle. I will stretch out over Jerusalem the measuring line used against Samaria and the plumb line used against the house of Ahab. I will wipe out Jerusalem as one wipes a dish, wiping it and turning it upside down. I will forsake the remnant of my inheritance and hand them over to their enemies. They will be looted and plundered by all their foes, because they have done evil in my eyes and have provoked me to anger from the day their forefathers came out of Egypt until this day." Moreover, Manasseh also shed so much innocent blood that he filled Jerusalem from end to end-besides the sin that he had caused Judah to commit, so that they did evil in the eyes of the Lord.

 

[solo66 man]

Seems you have picked out your favorite part of the Bible.
If you may or may not recall, When the jews were taken into captivity by both the Babylonians and the Assyrians, the nations that rejoiced were also severly punished or wiped out by God and his then army.

At no point does God say the Jews are no longer His chosen people. In fact, a remnant of Jews will be at God's right hand according to Revelation. 144,000 - 12,000 from each tribe.

 

[mook2357]

Soloman,

Reading through this whole thread will just throw me out in a rant, but before condemning their "holy book" as promoting "laying in wait for the infidels," maybe you should find the original source of that info...

It is OUR Bible, and JESUS Himself who says this!!

Sorry, but it is:

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Jesus HIMSELF. Think on that before placing faults on people. I would be interested to hear how you justify that as "not what it is saying" while still defending that the Qur'an ACTUALLY MEANS to kill them. PS...for you, the word slay:

Strong's concordance-
2695 katasphatto {kat-as-fat'-to}

from 2596 and 4969;; v

AV - slay 1; 1

1) to kill off, to slaughter

I have much more, but we can start there. How do you justify Jesus telling Christians to kill the infidels?

Jen