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Those baskets of food scraps!

Discussion in 'Exploring Christianity' started by eider, Aug 5, 2017.

  1. eider

    eider Member

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    Hello everyone.....
    Many of you will have read the accounts of the mass feedings over many years, and so I hope that you will have thought about the collection of the food scraps?

    My question is: Why?
    Why did the disciples collect up the baskets of food scraps?
    I look forward to your many proposals and suggestions about this......
    Thankyou. :)

    Mark 6:41 And when he had taken the five loaves and the two fishes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed, and brake the loaves, and gave [them] to his disciples to set before them; and the two fishes divided he among them all. {6:42} And they did all eat, and were filled. {6:43} And they took up twelve baskets full of the fragments, and of the fishes.

    Luke 9:16 Then he took the five loaves and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed them, and brake, and gave to the disciples to set before the multitude. {9:17} And they did eat, and were all filled: and there was taken up of fragments that remained to them twelve baskets.
    Mathew 14:19 And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass, and took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to [his] disciples, and the disciples to the multitude. {14:20} And they did all eat, and were filled: and they took up of the fragments that remained twelve baskets full.
    John 6:12 When they were filled, he said unto his disciples, Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost. {6:13} Therefore they gathered [them] together, and filled twelve baskets with the fragments of the five barley loaves, which remained over and above unto them that had eaten.
     
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  2. Sarah G

    Sarah G Human bean. Supporter

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    To show that God provides not only what is needed but in abundance?

    This morning the priestly man on Morning Worship said that when Jesus' disciples gave the food to Him to bless and distribute it incited the gathered to take out their secret stashes of food supplies and share it, as Jesus did. That surprised me because it seemed like diluting a supernatural event to the mundane (not that sharing food is mundane).

    There is no doubt a deep and profound message that I am missing. Lately when I read the New Testament I struggle to remember the meaning behind the parables. Last night it was the new wine in old skins parable. I have had to look it up. I should get myself a children's Bible for my old age.
     
  3. eider

    eider Member

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    Yes...... I heard that suggestions before, how the crowds watched Jesus hold up food and give out, and wanting to be seen to do what he was doing. Sometimes miracles are about what people can do, maybe?

    I often wonder about the 'sideline' descriptions in the gospel accounts, and the collection of food scraps is just one of many that deserve some thought. :)
     
  4. Catherineanne

    Catherineanne Well-Known Member

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    For supper.
     
  5. eider

    eider Member

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    Ok.... :)
    Maybe that's why the disciple's hearts were hardened?

    There must have been a reason, and I'm sure that the local officials didn't dish out tickerts for littering, so..... who knows ? :)
     
  6. -V-

    -V- Well-Known Member

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    Well, in John, Jesus said, "that nothing be lost." If they're not throwing away food, what else is there to do with it than eat it? I think it's reasonable to presume they either ate it themselves later or gave it away to some other people to eat.
     
  7. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    From Bible.org commentary:

    The feeding of the five thousand takes place in Jewish territory, on the western side of the division of the river Jordan flowing into the Sea of Galilee. It was a sign to Israel that the Messiah was able to feed all the people even when there was no food to be had. The fact that there were twelve baskets left over indicates that He could meet the needs of all twelve tribes of Israel.

    The feeding of the four thousand takes place more to the eastern side of the Sea of Galilee, across the boundary in the political territories. The region in the east was not under Herod Antipas, but under his brother Philip’s reign; it was a heavily Gentile population. So by doing the miracle there as well, Jesus was showing them that as Messiah He could provide food for the nations too. The account of the feeding of the four thousand follows the miracle done for the Canaanite woman, with the lesson that the dogs (Gentiles) will take the scraps that fall from the table (what the Jews reject). According to Scripture there were seven nations living in the land when Israel arrived; this may well explain the symbolism of seven baskets of leftovers being collected afterwards. So the analysis of the contexts and a consideration of the differences shows a better solution to the parallel material than saying the community got it muddled.

    [...]

    The number twelve is not explained by Matthew, but it is a common number in the Bible. Here we have to be cautious about allegorizing the number, but twelve is used frequently for the twelve tribes of Israel. If this is the intent, then the idea is that there was enough left over from this feeding to feed the whole nation of Israel. As Messiah, Jesus was fully able to meet all the needs of the nation, just as in the Old Testament the physical needs of the nation were fully met by the miraculous provision of bread from heaven. There is a subtle equation between this event and that, which according to John Jesus went on to explain, and if so an equation between the LORD of Exodus and Jesus. But there is also a foretaste here of the great messianic banquet to come in which everyone will be satisfied.

    This miracle, as well as the others in the context, were designed to make people aware that Jesus was far more than a prophet. The miraculous works would authenticate His claims, and He claimed to be the Son of God, the King of the Jews, the LORD of all creation. The proper response would have been for people to follow Him and learn from Him. But we know from John that they started to leave.

    More:
    21. The Feeding Of The Five Thousand (Matthew 14:13-21)
     
  8. Sarah G

    Sarah G Human bean. Supporter

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  9. eider

    eider Member

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    Thankyou all for your replies, so far.
    Could I offer some more known info which might help in this question?

    1. With Jesus the disciples could have, and did have, huge fish catches.
    2. Those twelve baskets.... the disciples must have had them on the boat?
    3. Did the disciples have a routine of collecting food scraps wherever they went?
    4. The disciples were boatmen, and fishermen.

    Is there a way in which those baskets of food scraps could assist in huge nettings of fish?

    ...... just thinking about it, is all..... :)
     
  10. -V-

    -V- Well-Known Member

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    Well, the type of fishing they did was just about throwing nets, they didn't really use bait, if that's what you are suggesting.
     
  11. Sarah G

    Sarah G Human bean. Supporter

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    I can't find information regarding blessed food (only objects) and the disposing of it but I do remember that blessed food had to be disposed of by burying (or possibly throwing in the ocean) in an (Eastern religion) sect I was in. Maybe there were rules about the disposing of blessed food so they took it away for that reason. I think more likely there is numerical symbolism though.
     
  12. eider

    eider Member

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    Hi...
    No.,.... they didn't throw nets from boats, they laid drag nets out from the shore, round, and back to shore .... very long ones, and then pulled them in to the beach.

    Suppose they baited the waters first?
     
  13. -V-

    -V- Well-Known Member

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    The account of John 21:1-11 suggests otherwise.

    I'm sure we can suppose lots of things.
     
  14. Catherineanne

    Catherineanne Well-Known Member

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    I think people in the first century were not used to just throwing away perfectly good food.

    Hence; it was saved for supper.
     
  15. Catherineanne

    Catherineanne Well-Known Member

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    I commend Occam's Razor to your attention.

    Lots of things are possible; the simplest is the most likely.
     
  16. eider

    eider Member

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    Surely..... I expect that they had blank trips. :)
     
  17. eider

    eider Member

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    Then baiting the waters before netting could well be the simple answer.

    You commended Occam's Razor to me, please may I commend the laws of Moses to you? Discarded food picked from the ground was unclean, and therefore forbidden.... ..... see
    Lev.11:34

    :D
     
  18. -V-

    -V- Well-Known Member

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    Leviticus 11:34? That says: "Any food that may be eaten which becomes soaked with water will become unclean. Anything drinkable in any such vessel will become unclean."
     
  19. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Luk 5:4 Now when he had left speaking, he said unto Simon, Launch out into the deep, and let down your nets for a draught.
    Luk 5:5 And Simon answering said unto him, Master, we have toiled all the night, and have taken nothing: nevertheless at thy word I will let down the net.
    Luk 5:6 And when they had this done, they inclosed a great multitude of fishes: and their net brake.
    Luk 5:7 And they beckoned unto their partners, which were in the other ship, that they should come and help them. And they came, and filled both the ships, so that they began to sink.

    .
     
  20. eider

    eider Member

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    Hello again...
    Yes....... unclean.
    Leviticus 11:1 to 11:47 details foods which are unclean, and having read through all, the idea that Jews could walk across an area of ground, picking up handled and bitten food which has been discarded upon the ground, and then eat it, is most strange.

    The repeated tenet that foods which have been in contact with unclean things cannot be eaten seems quite clear, the ground itself carrying infection and desease. Lev 11:41 shows that anything on the ground was forbidden.

    And so each person must decide if they themselves, not pushed to desperation through starvation, would walk across an area of open ground picking up discarded morsels of food and eating them. They did have ground borne infection , but they didn't have hospitals ...... back then..... :D

    But dirty food scraps could be turned into clean food...... if used by a fisherman.
     
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