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Thomas Jefferson statue removed from NY City Hall after 187 years

Discussion in 'News & Current Events (Articles Required)' started by Landon Caeli, Nov 24, 2021.

Should the statue have been removed?

  1. Yes

    5 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. No

    10 vote(s)
    66.7%
  1. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli Amongst the Joshua Trees Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    112221JEFFERSON16GPM.jpg

    Thomas Jefferson is no longer in the room where it happens.

    Art handlers packed up an 884-pound statue of Jefferson in a wooden crate Monday after a mayoral commission voted to banish the likeness of the nation’s third president from City Hall, where it’s resided for nearly two centuries — because he owned slaves.

    Thomas Jefferson statue leaves City Hall after 187 years
     
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  2. Yttrium

    Yttrium Independent Centrist

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    Huh. You know, before too long, I wouldn't be surprised if the Washington Football Team became just... the Football Team.
     
  3. Hammster

    Hammster Citizen of Covidstan. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    That’s offensive to those who don’t have feet.
     
  4. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

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  5. IceJad

    IceJad Regular Member

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    Which civilization/nation/group of people have never owned slaves? The word slave derives from the ethnic group of Slavs. To remove a figure in history solely because we juxtapose modern sensibilities to history is like digging up a corpse to stand trial. Something medieval people do.

    In Mongolia they have a statue of Temujin or better known as Genghis Khan to the rest of the world. If you know anything about history you know Genghis Khan is anything but an upstanding man. He was the product of his time but the Mongolians today revere him for this achievements not his faults.

    Compared to Genghis Khan, Jefferson is tame.
     
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  6. IceJad

    IceJad Regular Member

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  7. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli Amongst the Joshua Trees Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    My understanding is that realistically, only a small minority of the population actually want these things to happen.
     
  8. Bradskii

    Bradskii Well-Known Member

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    Do you think he knew it was wrong?
     
  9. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    Or the other part of that word.

    It's going to just be "The Team"

    Until that also becomes offensive somehow as well.
     
  10. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

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    (American) "football" is a misnomer anyway.
     
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  11. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

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    This just doesn't bother me. Is it a great work of art? Put it in the museum. Does it represent an idea? What ideas does it represent, and how did he, as a person, embody them? But to be honest, to me it's just another idol if it is treated as somehow sacred. If it can't be moved for reasons, it's an idol. Who cares about this statue or any statue, unless one's identity is tied to it? See, it's an idol.
     
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  12. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    One statue in and of itself wouldn't bother me either if it wasn't for the fact that a certain faction of people are intent on bringing down everything that represents American democracy and the constitution. Practically everything that makes up America is under attack, including of course, Thanksgiving. They're chipping away, little by little. One statue here, a name change there, another founding father or mother demonized over there, a few more flag burnings...it's ongoing.

    At first it was just confederate statues and everyone laughed at the idea they would be going after Jefferson or Washington. Well now they are doing just that.
     
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  13. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

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    Its not about that.

    The salient question is more like: should we expect certain citizens among us to tolerate, in a place of public honor, the image of a person who would have them deemed fit for enslavement?

    I am less and less willing to impose that upon other people.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
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  14. WolfGate

    WolfGate Senior Member Supporter

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    If you remove every statue of people with moral failings there will be no statues. We are better suited acknowledging that people who do great things are still imperfect and, particularly in situations where they were adhering to the social norms of their day.

    I am fine with removing statues put up to honor people when those statues are based on their support of depravity, such as civil war or segregationist leaders. Those actions do not deserve honor. I am not fine with removing statues put up to honor people for great things they did do, despite the fact they failed in other moral areas.
     
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  15. Tanj

    Tanj Redefined comfortable middle class

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    Pretty sure there's an equally small minority that care, one way or the other.

    I'd also like to point out the irony of the OP showing Jefferson in chains.
     
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  16. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

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    That seems like a slippery slope, which is understandable but a fallacy still. Sure, it could be that the intention is to tear up everything. That's a pretty jaundiced view of the intention, I would say. It could be that removing his statue stands for the very ideas you want preserved.

    I tend to see it as an insistence that we embody the ideas. I would rather have the statues gone and the ideas embodied by actual citizens. I think that's the point.
     
  17. IceJad

    IceJad Regular Member

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    Then Americans should remove Martin Luther King Jr bust from the White House. You wouldn't want to impose those working there to the image of an anti-feminist. He expected his wife to be a housewife and mother. The indignity to modern women where they can choose what they want with their own lives. Not to mention about his extramarital affairs.
     
  18. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    Considering the locale, I'm sure there will be a number of embodied ideas of *something*, but which ones, I wonder?
     
  19. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

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    He actually inherited slaves, and was not able to legally free them because that would actually have been against the law at the time.
     
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  20. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli Amongst the Joshua Trees Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    I thought of that too... Our third president, a founding father, being shackled, and lowered into a wooden crate.

    What a different country this is now to what it was then.
     
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