This young mom lost her baby after she was Tased by police for struggling to remove her tongue ring

[Nithavela]

Depends on who you ask. Seems like even the most zealous pro-lifer calls it a "fetus" when the cops kill it.

Maybe we could come up with a new term that both parties can agree on?

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Maybe we could come up with a new term that both parties can agree on?

It may be better to focus on the actions of the officers. As someone hinted at earlier, pregnant or not this was a dehumanizing act. The fact these cops killed HER baby in the process (in HER womb, that SHE loved) is another issue with its own gravity. A deeper discussion would be the value the cops place on life in general, but in this context the loss of the baby was much more than collateral damage, precisely because of the negligence involved.

 

[Nithavela]

It may be better to focus on the actions of the officers.

Now you're just being silly.

 

[WolfGate]

Victim blaming? I never mentioned the victim.

Mention directly? No. In the context of this thread your implication is clear, however. Ignore the fact that she is facing no charges and therefore won't go on trial, much less be found guilty of any crime.

 

[dgiharris]

We can expect more of this as long as half of the population is going to take the stance that "any criticism of the police is unpatriotic". There was already a glaring accountability issue...the fact that a political faction has taken the stance of 'defend police no matter what', for the purpose of sticking it to their political rivals, is just going to exacerbate that problem.

I think there is another component to this beyond the GOP supporting police no matter what said police do...

The other component to this is actually beyond political party affiliation.

There is a significant portion and segment of the population that believes they will never have a negative and/or life threatening altercation with police.

A significant part of morality IMO is empathy. Part of the social contract is based on how we individually want others to treat us. I will agree not to run red lights because I don't want you to run red lights and endanger me...

However, what happens to the social contract if I honestly and truly believe that certain things will never happen to me? How much should I really care about Police Abuse if I 100% believe that I will NEVER be in a situation in which a cop can or will taser me or hurt me???

Conversely, it isn't too far of a stretch from the above to believe that if you are beaten, tasered, or killed by police then you simply deserve it.

Sadly, what this portion of the population fails to comprehend is that every single one of us is one bully cop away from making the news. I don't care who you are, you run up against a bully ego maniac cop in a bad mood and your life can change forever...

 

[Liza B.]

It may be better to focus on the actions of the officers. As someone hinted at earlier, pregnant or not this was a dehumanizing act. The fact these cops killed HER baby in the process (in HER womb, that SHE loved) is another issue with its own gravity. A deeper discussion would be the value the cops place on life in general, but in this context the loss of the baby was much more than collateral damage, precisely because of the negligence involved.

Now isn't that revealing eh? If she loves it, it's a baby. If she wants to kill it, it's a fetus.

Imagine if we extrapolated that to that life a few weeks later and past the vulva. "If you love this newborn, keep it. If you don't...."

 

[TLK Valentine]

Now isn't that revealing eh? If she loves it, it's a baby. If she wants to kill it, it's a fetus.

Imagine if we extrapolated that to that life a few weeks later and past the vulva. "If you love this newborn, keep it. If you don't...."

"....then end up in police custody somehow and let the cops do their thing."

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Now isn't that revealing eh? If she loves it, it's a baby. If she wants to kill it, it's a fetus.

Imagine if we extrapolated that to that life a few weeks later and past the vulva. "If you love this newborn, keep it. If you don't...."

As for me, my position on abortion and the quality of the life of conceived entities has never changed. There is no intimation of hypocrisy for this one.

However, the issue is not about whether or not the fetus is considered a human child by John Q. Public: that was the creation of the woman who lost the soul. We would be nothing short of an orifice of excrement if we pretend we have a say in someone else's child's life and quality of life (including what makes it a human.) You guys can discuss that at a bar, or in a club or secret society - what has been "accepted" about conception. You still don't have a say in the quality of life of someone else's child. That has always been an interesting attribute of humanity - that another adult would let another adult tell them what to do with their child as if they owned it.

I don't see why people are commenting on the quality of the life of a child when the issue is a bunch of male officers being so negligent they cause someone to lose a valuable possession of their own - if you want to be simplistic. If you don't believe the fetus is a soul, then replace it with some other material object (like your i-Phone,) and then imagine if a cop electrocuted you so hard/much that your new iPhone X exploded in your hand. Could you imagine if you worked two quarters under a tyrant just to afford it?

Now, lets forget about both for a minute: the "fetus/iPhone": those cops were negligent. This distraction about left vs. right views on abortion, life and such are distractions to keep people preoccupied with hackneyed pleb topics that have long progressed with or without approval. The real issue is how a nation has become so dehumanized by their "law enforcement and justice system" that not only do they defend it under clear tyranny, they defend it against what would be considered obviously inhumane. I have seen just as many so called "right-winged" pro-life supporters give no cares about baby issues when it involves creatures for which they do not care, and I have seen them give the same apathy when cops are involved.

Why do humans think so low of themselves?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The criminal justice system dehumanizes many that are in it for any length of time, especially those who interact with offenders. So these incidents are pretty predictable. Sadly those at the top have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

 

[JCFantasy23]

The topic isn't abortion. Whatever a person wants to call an unborn child, the point is it died from the police's brutality with the taser, and the mother was both hurt and humiliated. I still don't see a justifiable reason for her being tasered. A stuck tongue ring she couldn't get out right away while trying to cover her chest at the same time?

 

[faroukfarouk]

Now isn't that revealing eh? If she loves it, it's a baby. If she wants to kill it, it's a fetus.

Imagine if we extrapolated that to that life a few weeks later and past the vulva. "If you love this newborn, keep it. If you don't...."

Sad case. I wonder why she had to take out her tongue ring?

 

[JCFantasy23]

Sad case. I wonder why she had to take out her tongue ring?

I think it's a policy to remove all piercings when being checked in.

 

[faroukfarouk]

This is terrible. I have a stuck piercing in my ear I haven't been able to get out for weeks - I need to soak my ear in water or something, it's really fused on the back. I can totally believe her story about it being stuck since I have this happen to me sometimes. How terrifying for her.

Sorry about your problem; possibly also someone in a tattoo/piercing parlor might be able to advise about removal. Actually in order not to lose holes it can be important to keep rings/studs in most of the time in however many holes the person has in the ears, otherwise the holes can very easily close up. In fact at the small local church my wife and I church have been attending, it seemed that even a majority of the young men/boys were accustomed to wearing earrings, so if it really is the person's preference it's worthwhile to remember always to try to keep the holes open.

(Sad about that person's experience in police detention.)

 

[JCFantasy23]

Sorry about your problem; possibly also someone in a tattoo/piercing parlor might be able to advise about removal. Actually in order not to lose holes it can be important to keep rings/studs in most of the time in however many holes the person has in the ears, otherwise the holes can very easily close up. In fact at the small local church my wife and I church have been attending, it seemed that even a majority of the young men/boys were accustomed to wearing earrings, so if it really is the person's preference it's worthwhile to remember always to try to keep the holes open.

Oh, I finally got it out - thankfully

 

[faroukfarouk]

Oh, I finally got it out - thankfully

Good that you managed it...

(I'm sure you would agree about the holes, as well.)

 

[Ana the Ist]

I will say this until I am blue in the face, these incidents though tragic are red herrings.

The real problem is the environment that emboldens these officers to do such terrible things to fellow human beings. These sorts of things don't happen "out of the blue". The real question is, "what is the environment and police procedures and atmosphere that enables this sort of thing"

Look at the following "initial" result

Smith was awarded a small settlement for what happened to her, and the county that managed the jail agreed to“expand staff training and adopt new policies barring Taser use on prisoners who pose no reasonable threat, are not forcefully resisting, or are ‘limp or prone.'” But that only happened after intervention from the Department of Justice; before the DOJ got involved, an internal sheriff’s office review of Smith’s ordeal somehow “found no wrongdoing by guards and said the Taser use did not constitute excessive force.”

Whenever something awful happens there is always an "internal review" and that "internal review" uses any and every conceivable excuse to side with the police officers. The amount of mental gymnastics and logical contortion required to find "someway" to side with these officers in these sorts of things is reprehensible.

SO here is my solution to these sorts of problems.

#1, no more internal investigations and interdepartmental investigations by the good ol' boys. We need 100% independent and autonomous oversight that is completely divorced from police culture. There is this argument that "only police understand what it is like and therefore they are the only ones who can judge these things." I call Bull Excrement on that. Rational and sane human beings with life experience dealing with people and an understanding of the Constitution is all that is required.

#2, officers that witness and allow these tragedies should be held to the exact same consequences as the officers who commit these atrocities. If my friend and I rob a liquor store and my friend decides to rape and kill the clerk I don't get charged with petty theft just because I didn't rape and kill. NO, my charges increase dramatically since I was an accomplice. We need the same thing to happen to police.

#3, officer need to be personally and financially liable for these sorts of things.

Anyways, the real problem is the environment the emboldens and enables these sorts of things. It doesn't just happen out-of-the-blue.

If you instituted those changes....who would be a cop?

Nobody.