This talking about Today?

[JohnB445]

To the Church in Laodicea
14“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation.

15“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! 16So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. 17For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. 19Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. 20Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. 21The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”

What kind of Churches are described in here?

Some Will Depart from the Faith
1Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

Where do we see this now?

Preach the Word
1I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 2preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 3For the time is coming when people will not endure sounda teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 5As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

Some examples, and is it prevalent now?

The Day of the Lord Will Come
1This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, 3knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. 4They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, 6and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. 7But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

Has there been an influx of mockers this time period?


Godlessness in the Last Days
1But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good,4treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.

Have we seen an influx of immorality this specific era?

 

[RDKirk]

Yeah, applicable to some places and congregations today.

Don't forget, though, that the whole Body of Christ is not representative of Western or American Christians.

There are Christians in Vietnam, China, North Korea, Northern Africa, and other places who are not Laodicean in the slightest sense.

 

[JCFantasy23]

Some Will Depart from the Faith
1Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

Verse 1-2 is easy enough to understand, we see it all around us. How about 3 and 4? Are there any groups that forbid marriage? The only dietary restrictions and laws I know of are Jewish.

 

[Biblewriter]

Verse 1-2 is easy enough to understand, we see it all around us. How about 3 and 4? Are there any groups that forbid marriage? The only dietary restrictions and laws I know of are Jewish.

Did you ever hear of Popery? The priests and nuns are still forbidden to marry, and meats were forbidden on Fridays until recently.

 

[JCFantasy23]

Did you ever hear of Popery? The priests and nuns are still forbidden to marry, and meats were forbidden on Fridays until recently.

True, I wasn't thinking of that when I first saw this.

 

[RDKirk]

Verse 1-2 is easy enough to understand, we see it all around us. How about 3 and 4? Are there any groups that forbid marriage? The only dietary restrictions and laws I know of are Jewish.

Shakers. At one time there were about 60,000. Now there are only two (as of 2017).

 

[parousia70]

No.
It was directly addressed and urgently delivered to the 1st century Asia minor church at Laodicea, to actual air breathing, blood pumping human beings alive there in the 1st century.

Surprising at it may seem, it actually applied to the people it was addressed and delivered to, back then.

 

[food4thought]

To the Church in Laodicea
14“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation.

15“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! 16So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. 17For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. 19Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. 20Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. 21The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”

What kind of Churches are described in here?

First and foremost, it applied to the Laodicean church of the 1st century. Secondarily, it has applied to various churches throughout history. Prophetically, it applies to a portion of the last days church, which is comprised of the churches of Thyatira (predominantly the Roman Catholic church), Sardis (spiritually dead churches), Philadelphia (the faithful remnant), and, of course, Laodicea (the wealthy western church which this passage speaks of).

Some Will Depart from the Faith
1Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

Where do we see this now?

Yes, this applies primarily to the times immediately preceding the Lord's return (latter days). It sure seems like we see the first part of this coming to pass increasingly. Verse 3, not so much outside the Catholic priesthood.

Preach the Word
1I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 2preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 3For the time is coming when people will not endure sounda teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 5As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

Some examples, and is it prevalent now?

This does not indicate a time frame for it's fulfillment, and it has occurred throughout church history to one level or another. Today it is definitely on the increase.

The Day of the Lord Will Come
1This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, 3knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. 4They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, 6and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. 7But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

Has there been an influx of mockers this time period?

The bolded part has certainly taken place increasingly over the last few centuries; culminating, I believe, in the broad acceptance of the theories of evolution and uniformitarianism in the last hundred years. If we are living in the last days, it will only become more widespread.

Godlessness in the Last Days
1But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good,4treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.

Have we seen an influx of immorality this specific era?

The last days began with the birth of the church, so these things have been around for a long time. I will say these things are becoming increasingly evident today.

 

[parousia70]

The last days began with the birth of the church

Pentecost then? That event is what began last Days?

Because the writer of Hebrews has them already underway years before.
Hebrews 1:1-2

 

[food4thought]

Pentecost then? That event is what began last Days?

Because the writer of Hebrews has them already underway years before.
Hebrews 1:1-2

Perhaps... I could be mistaken on that point.

Note: I think the church actually began when Jesus breathed upon the disciples in John 20:22.

 

[parousia70]

Perhaps... I could be mistaken on that point.

Note: I think the church actually began when Jesus breathed upon the disciples in John 20:22.

I don't have an immediate objection to that speculation.

I do object to the speculation that the beginning of the Church happened in the "last days" of the "Church age", which is what many here (maybe you?) seem to assert.

If you are one who asserts this, can you attempt to reconcile how the first days of the Church age were also the last days of the church age?

This also does not fit with the disciples' question in Matt 24:2.

They asked Jesus when the end of the Age was going to be... near as I can tell by your timeline, they were asking Jesus about the end of an age that:
1) Had not even begun at the time they were asking about when it would end.
2) They had no idea was even coming, so How could they be asking about its end?

None of it adds up.

 

[food4thought]

I don't have an immediate objection to that speculation.

I do object to the speculation that the beginning of the Church happened in the "last days" of the "Church age", which is what many here (maybe you?) seem to assert.

If you are one who asserts this, can you attempt to reconcile how the first days of the Church age were also the last days of the church age?

This also does not fit with the disciples' question in Matt 24:2.

They asked Jesus when the end of the Age was going to be... near as I can tell by your timeline, they were asking Jesus about the end of an age that:
1) Had not even begun at the time they were asking about when it would end.
2) They had no idea was even coming, so How could they be asking about its end?

None of it adds up.

My understanding is that the entire church age is the last days.

 

[food4thought]

They asked Jesus when the end of the Age was going to be... near as I can tell by your timeline, they were asking Jesus about the end of an age that:
1) Had not even begun at the time they were asking about when it would end.
2) They had no idea was even coming, so How could they be asking about its end?

My first thought on this, and this is only a first thought (I haven't really considered it long), is that the end of the age COULD be denoting the destruction of Jerusalem, but the term "last days" COULD specifically apply to the church age.

 

[food4thought]

I looked at the Biblical usage of the term "last days" just now, and it appears to be used of the Millennial Kingdom in the OT. In the NT it appears to be used of the church age. Not sure what to make of this at the moment.

 

[parousia70]

I looked at the Biblical usage of the term "last days" just now, and it appears to be used of the Millennial Kingdom in the OT. In the NT it appears to be used of the church age. Not sure what to make of this at the moment.

Searching the scriptures before forming an opinion on whether or not something is “scriptural” is always a good idea.

 

[food4thought]

Searching the scriptures before forming an opinion on whether or not something is “scriptural” is always a good idea.

True that. Looking at more than one translations also helps.

After some consideration, I see that the NASB and NIV are unique in translating the OT passages as "last days". It seems the other major translations usually render it as "latter days"... so I think I was just mistaken in the OT and NT disparity. Latter days probably does mean the Millennium, while last days refers to the church age as a whole.

 

[parousia70]

True that. Looking at more than one translations also helps.

After some consideration, I see that the NASB and NIV are unique in translating the OT passages as "last days". It seems the other major translations usually render it as "latter days"... so I think I was just mistaken in the OT and NT disparity. Latter days probably does mean the Millennium, while last days refers to the church age as a whole.

Yeah I can't get on board with that...

The FIRST DAYS of the Church were also it's "LAST DAYS"?

Really?

What could we say about the years 650AD - 875AD, for example, that typified "the Last Days"... what were those years "the last days of"? Can't be the church... since the Church has gone on for centuries past that...

My bet is the Biblical last days were the last days of the Old Covenant era, in the generation of Jesus and the Apostles.

That makes the most Biblical, plain sense.
Certainly, more plain sense than stretching, twisting and elasticizing the last days into 2 millennia and counting.....