This Means WAR: The ObamaCare Betrayal By Senators Capito And Murkowski Can Never Be Forgotten

[Albion]

So, once again, how big of a margin is required (in your opinion) before you can hold a party accountable for its own failures?

That isn't the issue. Hold them accountable, if you insist. I am sure that you would do something of that sort no matter how this turned out.

But if we are to be honest about this, a two-vote margin is nothing that the Democrats faced and they still couldn't get their bill passed in less than a year and a half...and it took at least one Republican to join them at that! Gloating is fun and easy; but making a fair comparison is something we should expect, too.

 

[Nithavela]

That isn't the issue. Hold them accountable, if you insist. I am sure that you would do something of that sort no matter how this turned out.

But if we are to be honest about this, a two-vote margin is nothing that the Democrats faced and they still couldn't get their bill passed in less than a year and a half...and it took at least one Republican to join them at that! Gloating is fun and easy; but making a fair comparison is something we should expect, too.

I don't think you have any clear benchmark on when to hold the republicans accountable. I think that as long as they don't reach their goals, in your mind it is the devious democrats' fault, no matter the facts of the matter.

 

[PeachyKeane]

The Republicans have done all of this.

They did? What was the general response from the insurance companies (like Blue Cross or Blue Shield for example) and the AMA?

 

[Albion]

I don't think you have any clear benchmark on when to hold the republicans accountable.

Then you probably haven't been following these discussions very closely. That's not my fault.

 

[Nithavela]

Then you probably haven't been following these discussions very closely. That's not my fault.

One of the problems of talking with you is that as soon as someone tries to talk about your viewpoints, they are, as far as you say, invariably wrong.

Have you ever wondered if perhaps you are doing a bad job of representing your viewpoints if people keep missunderstanding you?

 

[Albion]

They did?

Yes. They did. Cross my heart and pinky finger swear. End of discussion.

 

[PeachyKeane]

Yes. They did. Cross my heart and pinky finger swear. End of discussion.

And they endorsed the bill, did they?

I ask because it seems the AMA wasn't so keen on it, and Blue Cross and Blue Shield say it's unworkable.

But you're saying these groups all endorsed the bill, right?

 

[Hank77]

Yes.

If the bill was written behind closed doors, why can I remember listening to debates on the floor of both the House and the Senate?

I don't know why you'd say this. We all saw (on TV) meetings held with constituents at which that issue was front and center.

This bill was written and attempted to be voted on over a period of a few weeks. Just how much time did they have to meet with their constitutes across their state?

The Republicans have done all of this.

Not when they wrote this bill. Kaiser said it was a bad bill, BCBS said it would cause premiums to rise, did they listen, did they care.

 

[Hank77]

Keep re-writing what I said until you get it the way you want it.

I posted your direct quote.
Now if I am misunderstanding what you said, I would appreciate you explaining what you meant.

 

[Hank77]

He is not expected simply to be their mouthpiece by always voting in the way that some poll or guesswork indicates that the majority of the residents of that state prefer. He's not merely the stand-in for them, nor did the quiz you presented say any such thing. By the way also, this has come up during election campaigns, from time to time, when some incumbent, but maverick, like John McCain or Joe Lieberman has cast a vote that he thinks is in the national interest even though it goes against popular opinion back home.

Did McCain and Lieberman vote for the good of their state or did they vote what they thought was for the good of the country?
If they voted for what they believed was for the good of their state then they were doing their job.

 

[Evan Jellicoe]

This Means WAR: The ObamaCare Betrayal By Senators Capito And Murkowski Can Never Be Forgotten

I hereby pledge to donate money to the strongest conservative challenger willing to primary either of these senators on the basis of their refusal to vote to repeal Obamacare. I don’t care if I have to wait until 2020 or 2022, I am doing it. And I will vocally support that person against these Senators, and do everything I can to see that these women are unseated.

“What would Jesus do?” long ago became a tired cliché, and yet sometimes I pull it back out and think on it.

Even in the Old Testament, with that God of (supposedly) fear and death and wrath and judgment, God’s people are told to value love and mercy among the greatest of goods. They were further told, “When a stranger resides with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt.” [Leviticus 19:33-34].

Sometimes I hear it said that all “charity” is to be performed by individuals, voluntary organizations, and churches, and that the federal government has no Constitutional right to spend money in this way. I, and many, many other Bible-believing Christians, do not believe that this is what the Bible commands. My fellow American is my brother or sister, whether or not we share membership in the same church or denomination, or even if they are not even Christian, and the Constitution—a secular document—empowers the government to “provide for the General Welfare.” This certainly can include making it possible for all to receive decent medical care if the People, through their Representatives, choose to do so. At this time the majority of the American People would prefer that the ACA not be abolished. The People might not be right, but what do you think God thinks? After all, He is the one in charge, through His Son.

We know this because Jesus Himself said, “Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord' and do not do what I say?” [Luke 6:46]. We are all responsible to do what He wants us to do, not to expect Him to support what we decide. He is the Master, not the powerful genie in the bottle. So, what do you believe, based on your current reading and understanding of Scripture, Jesus wants you and me to do regarding assisting people who need help with unaffordable medical necessities? I don’t mean this as a challenge to search the Bible to find verses that prove you are right. I mean what is your belief, right now, based on what you already know of Scripture? What do you believe Jesus wants you and me to do? And why?

Evan

 

[Albion]

And they endorsed the bill, did they?

Read the sequence of posts and quotes, and the confusion should be cleared up for you.

 

[camille70]

Generally speaking, in this country we've held that Senators are not supposed to be simply middle men for conveying the opinions of the homefolks to Washington but, rather, that they are to legislate with the interests of the country in the forefront.

Agreed. Now maybe they will vote foe sensible gun reforms.

 

[CitizenD]

The arrogance of Republican leaders and their willingness to work against their base has been noteworthy in recent years.

That's weird. I thought elected politicians worked for their constituents, not their parties.

Maybe I'm just being arrogant in invoking constitutional law.

 

[Tanj]

The arrogance of Republican leaders and their willingness to work against their base has been noteworthy in recent years.

Especially the last 6 months.

 

[variant]

Noting that all Republican senators and congressmen, with the exception of Susan Collins, have campaigned under the banner of repealing Obamacare.

They didn't universally campaign on that promise unconditionally, neither did Trump himself.

 

[variant]

The will of the voters or the will of the party?

Well if the polls are to be believed the voters think these plans stink.

It is almost as if when republicans started talking about what they actually wanted to do, the entire debate became about reality instead of whatever fantasy people believed before the election.

 

[variant]

That isn't the issue. Hold them accountable, if you insist. I am sure that you would do something of that sort no matter how this turned out.

But if we are to be honest about this, a two-vote margin is nothing that the Democrats faced and they still couldn't get their bill passed in less than a year and a half...and it took at least one Republican to join them at that! Gloating is fun and easy; but making a fair comparison is something we should expect, too.

The Republicans tactics on this have been pretty abysmal, and you are right the processes are not comparable at all.

The Republicans crafted all their bills in secret without even involving everyone in their whole party and have yet to find anything that they can all unite behind nor have they been able to strong arm the people they haven't involved in the process.

When they bring it up to a vote the people who were never on board are still not. Which should not be surprising to anyone.

I honestly can't tell if the issue is the lack of imagination, ability or will to craft a better bill and get everyone they need to involved.

Or, perhaps it is just laziness. The idea that they will be perpetually rewarded without doing any real work on an issue. I wonder why the senators feel so entitled to easy wins...

Probably because republicans will vote for a crumpled up sweat sock as long as it has an R after it's name.

 

[mark46]

As we see, those who think that the failure of the Congressional GOP to pass a bill--any bill that alters Obamacare--will leave the Dems as the owners of Obamacare when it collapses...

...have greatly misjudged the Left's ability to spin almost anything into being the Republicans' fault.

This is what some conservatives believe. We'll see in 2018. Perhaps, the Republicans will be able to convince their base that they failed in meeting their goals, even with a Republican president, a Republican House and a Republican Senate.

They campaigned on more that just repeal (or repeal and replace). They asked the American people to give them a senate majority and the presidency, SO THAT THERE WOULD BE NO ROOM FOR EXCUSE.
McConnell understands this. Ryan understands this. Sometimes, even Trump understands this.

 

[mark46]

Well if the polls are to be believed the voters think these plans stink.

It is almost as if when republicans started talking about what they actually wanted to do, the entire debate became about reality instead of whatever fantasy people believed before the election.

I wonder why the people would reject a plan to take $1TRILLION dollars out federally funding for their healthcare?