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This is what Democracy looks like -- Theocracy?

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by NightHawkeye, Jun 24, 2012.

  1. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

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    Mohammed Morsi Wings Egyptian Election - Business Insider

    Weird ... Muslim Brotherhood wins ... who'd have thought it?
    [​IMG]

    Muslim Brotherhood's Morsi declared Egypt's new president - CNN.com
    Morsi ended up with just under 52% of the vote, while Shafik got just over 48%, officials said.

    The Muslim Brotherhood's Freedom and Justice Party, on Facebook, called the election result a "tribute to the martyrs of our revolution." It vowed, "We will keep walking on the path."

    On Twitter, the Muslim Brotherhood said the "battle for democracy" and justice hasn't ended, and "we will remain" in Tahrir.

    The presidency is largely a figurehead position, as the country's military rulers maintain much of the control over the country.
    Still, the vote was "a moment in history," said Abdul Mawgoud Dardery, a fellow member of the Muslim Brotherhood's Freedom and Justice Party.

    "We've been waiting for it for 7,000 years," he said. "For the first time in history we have our own president, elected by us. The power of the people is now in the hands of the president -- and the president has to go and move forward."
     
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  2. IAmCatwoman

    IAmCatwoman Guest

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    So they just did what Christians in the US have been doing for years but with an extremist?

    [​IMG]
     
  3. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

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    Fortunately, the USA is a constitutional republic ... with limited federal government powers ... rather than a simple democracy. We'll see how this works out for the Egyptians.
     
  4. Illuminaughty

    Illuminaughty Drift and Doubt

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    From what I've heard it seems people didn't like either of the two major options. They just felt obliged to hold their nose and vote for the MB so as not to hand power back to the interests that previously held control. The BBC has been interviewing a lot analysts and Egyptian citizens and that seems the major theme they keep repeating at least. A lot of the more democracy minded people seemed to think they were stuck voting that way because the alternative would be to go back to the ways of the old school. I've also heard that people think the MB will follow a more moderate path but I'm not sure if that's a wise view. You can never trust right wing religious fanatics with power like that imo.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2012
  5. HalfoffSale

    HalfoffSale Newbie

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    What's wrong with them being a Theocracy? Doesn't seem to be much of a problem for our good friend Israel.
     
  6. Illuminaughty

    Illuminaughty Drift and Doubt

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    Wrong religion?
     
  7. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

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    Bad premise. Israel is not a theocracy.

    Here's some info: Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Israel, officially the State of Israel, Medīnat Yisrā'el, is a parliamentary republic in the Middle East, along the eastern shore of the Mediterranean Sea. It borders Lebanon in the north, Syria in the northeast, Jordan and the West Bank in the east, Egypt and the Gaza Strip on the southwest, and the Gulf of Aqaba in the Red Sea to the south, and it contains geographically diverse features within its relatively small area. Israel is defined as a Jewish and Democratic State in its Basic Laws and is the world's only Jewish-majority state.
    Practising Jews are not even the majority population in Israel. Here's some more info: Secularism in Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  8. HalfoffSale

    HalfoffSale Newbie

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    Egypt's leaders were elected too, just like Israels. I'm also skeptical to call Israel not a Theocracy when non Jews can't get married there.
     
  9. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

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    Your assertion appears to be mistaken: Marriage in Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Marriages in Israel can be performed under the auspices of the religious community to which couples belong, or for people who have proven to lack any religion, civil marriage can be performed also.

     
  10. Illuminaughty

    Illuminaughty Drift and Doubt

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    When I hear of states being officialy Jewish, Muslim, or Christian (or any other religion) it makes me think they are still stuck back in the dark ages in that regard. I guess I was brought up with the American idea of separation of Church and state so I always have a strong reaction against examples of governmental religious establishment.
     
  11. thaumaturgy

    thaumaturgy Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately all around the Egyptian election seems to be a mess anyway. The military stepped in even before the election was called to scale back the president's powers anyway.

    Egypt will likely continue to be a military "dictatorship" of sorts. Little will likely change for them. If the Muslim Brotherhood gets any real control it would be sad, but then the Egyptians' hopes for democratic freedom (and the West's "celebration" of the Revolution there) seem to be winding down to little change.

    I'm saddened but not surprised. I would really hate to be the "tip of the spear" in establishing "democracy" in any sort of part of the world that has known little but oppression for decades. That's going to be a hard job for whomever takes it on and it will take years and years of hard, hard work.
     
  12. HalfoffSale

    HalfoffSale Newbie

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    From the same article you linked me to.



    But that's irrelevant. If A Jewish democratically elected state with religious government officials is fine, why not a Muslim democratically elected state?
     
  13. Illuminaughty

    Illuminaughty Drift and Doubt

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    Wrong religion.
     
  14. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

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    But ... you're applying it out-of-context, HalfoffSale.

    The passage you quoted applies only to "religious" marriages for Jews. Practising Jews in Israel happen to have standards for marriage. :thumbsup:

    It's a religious matter, not a matter of being forbidden from marrying. Those same people can get married in Israel in a civil ceremony. Presumably, they choose to marry abroad in order to obtain some "religious" sanction unavailable to them in Israel.
    Irrelevant? I agree with you about that ... but you brought the matter up. I merely attempted to set the facts straight. :wave:
    I believe a constitutional republic in Egypt might be a fine thing ... but it appears that the Muslim Brotherhood has other intentions ... Khalifa!

    That ... and the annihilation of Israel, of course.
     
  15. Touma

    Touma In on the cover up

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    Both candidates in Egypt are ruled by SCAF. The military lives on. They go from one dictator to another. It is just unfortunate that this dictator might not be our own. Maybe we can give him some money and tanks and buy him off. I hope so.
     
  16. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    The revolution was about bread. Egyptians can expect manna from heaven on their tables any day now that they went with the party of God.
     
  17. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    Your argument seems to be an appeal to common sense about what the MB really is.


    Good luck with that!!
     
  18. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

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    Hi, Solomon. :wave:

    Thanks. I'm surprised that arguments so far haven't disputed that aspect, LOL.
     
  19. BleedingHeart

    BleedingHeart Well-Known Member

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    If it's a religious party first and foremost, then I don't expect much change and none of it really any good. Are the Coptics still going to be treated like garbage?
     
  20. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    Looking to the Koran as the solution will likely not have any desirable effects on the lethargic economy. Seventh century solutions for twenty-first century problems, to my mind, will have no positive effect.
    And it is not as if the people of that region are not religious enough already. so it won't even raise the morality standard up to where that might have an effect—even if Islam actually does have that kind of effect.

    Often that kind of situation of deteriorating economy will have people looking for scapegoats to explain why God is still not shining on them, and the Copts are as good a target as any in that regard.
    Israel has also been an effective scapegoat target, and a way of directing anger outwards.
    Or America still?
     
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