This Is The Most Important Religious Liberty Decision Since Masterpiece Cakeshop

[Quartermaine]

Just as your repeated off-topic posts have nothing to do with this thread at all.
So for the last time, can we get back on topic?

You are the one that started the word game about discrimination not meaning discrimination.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

preference: a greater liking for one alternative over another or others

so you are saying you could change your orientation at whim. When exactly did you decide you preferred heterosexuality of any other orientation?

That is the natural order. Two genders. We are all born that way. DNA, Physiology. Biology. Birds and the bees. It is what sex was intended for and what the species cannot do without. Even evolutionary theory demands it. Without boys and girls there is no species. It is gone. You may have a preference for and practice unnatural sex, but that is not how mother nature made you.
The rest is a behavior, not a gender. It is what you do and how you perform your sexual acts. And that is preference. And that is not something you can force others to observe. Just plain and simple logic.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Romans 1
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Look at those words:
"even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, "

Says what it says. And science supports this concept.

 

[Quartermaine]

Just as your repeated off-topic posts have nothing to do with this thread at all.
So for the last time, can we get back on topic?

since you introduced the idea that the word discrimination doesn't actually mean the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people and just means recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another. You obviously thought it was on topic. did you change your mind about the definition of discrimination as the word is being used in this thread?

 

[Quartermaine]

That is the natural order. Two genders. We are all born that way. DNA, Physiology. Biology. Birds and the bees. It is what sex was intended for and what the species cannot do without. Even evolutionary theory demands it. Without boys and girls there is no species. It is gone. You may have a preference for and practice unnatural sex, but that is not how mother nature made you.
The rest is a behavior, not a gender. It is what you do and how you perform your sexual acts. And that is preference. And that is not something you can force others to observe. Just plain and simple logic.

do you know that gender and orientation are not the same thing?


that aside you completely avoided my questions:

Can change your orientation at whim?

When exactly did you decide you preferred heterosexuality of any other orientation?

 

[Quartermaine]

Look at those words:
"even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, "

Says what it says. And science supports this concept.

“natural” Paul specifically used the Greek word paraphysin - agreeing with the true self, not to go against the laws of nature. If Paul had meant ‘go against the law of nature’ he would have said ενάντια στο νόμο. So Paul is saying that the acts being engaged in were against the nature of that person.

Please remember that the society Paul is writing to, both Roman and Greek, considered homosexuality be natural. It was considered to be just the way some people are. What would have been seen as unnatural for Paul’s audience would have been to force oneself to go against one’s own nature and pretend to be something one is not. This going against one’s nature in pursuit of sex is referred to as being unnatural by many writers of the era.

Later in Romans 11:24 Paul uses paraphysin again where he describes God engaging in uncharacteristic ways. If you want to read Romans 1:27 as people acting against the laws of nature then in Romans 11:24 God would also be acting ageist the laws of nature… Which is impossible.

 

[Aldebaran]

since you introduced the idea that the word discrimination doesn't actually mean the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people and just means recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another. You obviously thought it was on topic. did you change your mind about the definition of discrimination as the word is being used in this thread?

Since you want to keep using that word, then the baker "discriminated" against what decoration to put on a cake, rather than against the person based on their sexual choices.
Does that adequately fit your definition ?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

do you know that gender and orientation are not the same thing?


that aside you completely avoided my questions:

Can change your orientation at whim?

When exactly did you decide you preferred heterosexuality of any other orientation?

I was born that way... period. My DNA, Physiology, and the science of Biology established it. People can deviate from the scientific reality if they want. You can park yourself in garage all you want, you will never be a car.
In order to discuss your point of view, you have to force it into a false framework which does not exist anywhere other than your mind. Orient anything you want. It is still an invention of the human mind that does not exist in nature apart from your imagination. I cannot answer for you imagination and I refuse to have the topic framed by it. There are two genders. Period. How your behave is your preference. Nor should anyone be forced to comply with or enable your fantasy. Essentially it is a religion. We have freedom from it. Believe what you want... it is not scientific fact. It is your fantasy world.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

You are looking at the words with a microscope while avoiding the clear statements.

25 "even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly,

You can pick out individual words and parse alternate meanings and totally avoid the context of the sentences and the passage. You are just fooling yourself. It is saying what it says. It is what it is.

“natural” Paul specifically used the Greek word paraphysin - agreeing with the true self, not to go against the laws of nature. If Paul had meant ‘go against the law of nature’ he would have said ενάντια στο νόμο. So Paul is saying that the acts being engaged in were against the nature of that person.

Please remember that the society Paul is writing to, both Roman and Greek, considered homosexuality be natural. It was considered to be just the way some people are. What would have been seen as unnatural for Paul’s audience would have been to force oneself to go against one’s own nature and pretend to be something one is not. This going against one’s nature in pursuit of sex is referred to as being unnatural by many writers of the era.

Later in Romans 11:24 Paul uses paraphysin again where he describes God engaging in uncharacteristic ways. If you want to read Romans 1:27 as people acting against the laws of nature then in Romans 11:24 God would also be acting ageist the laws of nature… Which is impossible.

 

[Quartermaine]

Since you want to keep using that word, then the baker "discriminated" against what decoration to put on a cake, rather than against the person based on their sexual choices.
Does that adequately fit your definition ?

but i asked about a lynching.

 

[Quartermaine]

I was born that way... period. My DNA, Physiology, and the science of Biology established it. People can deviate from the scientific reality if they want. You can park yourself in garage all you want, you will never be a car.

But you just said:

"sexual orientation" is a preference.


So now it isn't a preference?

In order to discuss your point of view, you have to force it into a false framework which does not exist anywhere other than your mind. Orient anything you want. It is still an invention of the human mind that does not exist in nature apart from your imagination. I cannot answer for you imagination and I refuse to have the topic framed by it. There are two genders. Period. How your behave is your preference. Nor should anyone be forced to comply with or enable your fantasy. Essentially it is a religion. We have freedom from it. Believe what you want... it is not scientific fact. It is your fantasy world.

Gender and orientation are two separate and unrelated things.

 

[Quartermaine]

You are looking at the words with a microscope while avoiding the clear statements.

25 "even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly,

You can pick out individual words and parse alternate meanings and totally avoid the context of the sentences and the passage. You are just fooling yourself. It is saying what it says. It is what it is.

you denial doesn't change the translation

 

[SavedByGrace3]

But you just said:

"sexual orientation" is a preference.


So now it isn't a preference?



Gender and orientation are two separate and unrelated things.

Yes... gender is a matter of scientific fact. It is what determines which bathroom you use and you can make babies with it.
Orientation is preference. It is like what car you drive and what tie you wear. And nobody has a right to force their's upon others.

 

[Quartermaine]

Yes... gender is a matter of scientific fact. It is what determines which bathroom you use and you can make babies with it.
Orientation is preference. It is like what car you drive and what tie you wear. And nobody has a right to force their's upon others.

again these are two separate things. Your biological gender is has nothing to do with your orientation.

and again:
preference is a greater liking for one alternative over another or others

if you say your sexual orientation is a preference that means you can chose to alter your orientation at any time just like choosing to drive a different car.

When exactly did you decide you preferred heterosexuality of any other orientation?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

again these are two separate things. Your biological gender is has nothing to do with your orientation.

and again:
preference is a greater liking for one alternative over another or others

if you say your sexual orientation is a preference that means you can chose to alter your orientation at any time just like choosing to drive a different car.

When exactly did you decide you preferred heterosexuality of any other orientation?

Same answer. At birth. Boys like girls. Girls like boys. DNA. Biology. Physiology. That is how the plumbing works. Tab A fits in slot B and the puzzle comes together for the intended purpose of said plumbing. A baby may come into being. Match up slot B with slot B or tab A with tab A all you want but it will never result in the natural biological intention for tabs and slots. No babies ever came from any of that.
You may choose to deviate from the natural order and behave however you want. Park yourself in a garage and toot like a horn. That will never make you a car. Choose to have sex with whoever or whatever you want. That will never change your gender. But if you are a biological, genetic, physiological male... use the men's bathroom. Behavior does not change gender any more than meowing like a cat and lapping milk from a bowl will change your species. And under no circumstances should your preferential behavior infringe on the rights of others. A NAZI should never walk into a Jewish Cake shop and demand the baker to scribe "Kill all Jews" on a cake. A KKK skinhead should never walk into a Black cake shop and demand the baker scribe "Hang the N...." on a cake. That is offensive and totally beyond the spirit and rational of the first amendment. Nor should and Muslim be forced to advocate the eating of pork, or any Christian be forced to participate in an event that offends the free exercise of his faith. Common sense and common decency. Grown ups should know that.

 

[Aldebaran]

but i asked about a lynching.

Sorry, but I'm not interested in being lynched today.

 

[Quartermaine]

Sorry, but I'm not interested in being lynched today.

or in giving an honest answer to the question either

 

[Quartermaine]

Same answer. At birth. Boys like girls. Girls like boys. DNA. Biology. Physiology. That is how the plumbing works. Tab A fits in slot B and the puzzle comes together for the intended purpose of said plumbing. A baby may come into being. Match up slot B with slot B or tab A with tab A all you want but it will never result in the natural biological intention for tabs and slots. No babies ever came from any of that.

I'll type this slowly ....please pay attention...gender is not orientation. The two are independent of each other.

You may choose to deviate from the natural order and behave however you want.

what natural order ?

wait. Do you think that because i stand up to anti-gay hate and prejudice and discrimination that makes me gay?

I stand up to racial hate and prejudice and discrimination too. Do you think that makes me black?

Park yourself in a garage and toot like a horn. That will never make you a car. Choose to have sex with whoever or whatever you want. That will never change your gender. But if you are a biological, genetic, physiological male... use the men's bathroom. Behavior does not change gender any more than meowing like a cat and lapping milk from a bowl will change your species.

yeah because gender isn't orientation

And under no circumstances should your preferential behavior infringe on the rights of others.

do you hold yourself to that standard?

A NAZI should never walk into a Jewish Cake shop and demand the baker to scribe "Kill all Jews" on a cake. A KKK skinhead should never walk into a Black cake shop and demand the baker scribe "Hang the N...." on a cake.

no one should want a cake saying kill any one and it doesn't matter who is requesting are as the baker rejects any such hate particular if that baker doesn't make hate based cakes for anyone

That is offensive and totally beyond the spirit and rational of the first amendment. Nor should and Muslim be forced to advocate the eating of pork, or any Christian be forced to participate in an event that offends the free exercise of his faith. Common sense and common decency. Grown ups should know that.

and if the baker makes cakes for everyone but not an interracial couple because such a couple offends his faith does that baker have the right to discriminate?

 

[Aldebaran]

or in giving an honest answer to the question either

Would it be more important to you that I give an honest answer, or one that you'll agree with? I tried giving honest answers before, only to have you attempt to change the narrative of the discussion.

 

[Quartermaine]

Would it be more important to you that I give an honest answer, or one that you'll agree with? I tried giving honest answers before, only to have you attempt to change the narrative of the discussion.

you've never answered the question in any form.