Namaste mark,
thank you for the post.
Eudaimonist said:
No, I seek to minimize needless deaths, and that starts by refusing to engage in displays of hatred, which can only perpetuate cycles of violence.
are you suggesting that there are needful deaths on occasion? i would happen to agree with such a sentiment if you are.
it would appear that you and i have fundamentally different views on what it means to burn things in protest. i see it in several ways tangentially related to ideas of western society but mainly i see it as Art. i'll grant that such may be due to the fact that most of my own art work revolves around fire... like the fire in Shiva's other hand which represents the passing of time.
its not formal enough to be Artistic but that doesn't stop it from being Art, in my view.
Even wars can bring people together and challenge concepts, but that wouldn't quite be sufficient justification for starting wars. The neo-cons are learning this the hard way.
wars aren't ideas... well.. perhaps they were ideas at some point but when we call it a war it's past the idea stage. this is just the IDEA of burning Al Qur'an! i am confused about your point here as i don't seriously think you are equating humans shooting each other with guns with the burning of books but it seems to be what you are doing. can you elaborate?
Refusing to display hatred is in no way like being extorted out of money. One loses nothing but the cheap satisfaction of engaging in a very primitive aspect of human nature, and that is no loss at all.
i disagree. being threatened with harm if you don't do as someone else wishes is the same irrespective of the reason that you are being threatened with harm to wit the leader of the cordoba house in NY suggesting that if the united states doesn't allow it to be built that Americans and Christians won't be safe from Muslim attack. this is simple and plain mafioso tactics and it's my view that rational beings have a Dharma, or duty, to stand up to it. most are not able to do so for a variety of reasons but that doesn't abrogate their Dharma.
leaving aside, for the moment, the group that is burning Al Qur'an would you be outraged if it were Muslims burning it? i'm just curious if it's the people, the book or something else which you are in opposition do? i.e. would you think it acceptable for a private citizen to burn a book that they own? would it be ok to invite some friends over to watch me burn my book? would it be ok for me to burn my Tipitaka, Bible, Torah and Al Qur'an all at the same time?
I'm not suggesting that we should give up our liberal democratic values just to appease Muslims. Our freedom is worth dying for. Our hate is not worth living for.
i don't see it as hate, i see it as Art. you see it as hate. i would agree that hatred isn't a positive value and does little to promote understanding amongst beings. is it hate to burn the American flag? what if i'm burning my books and not feeling any hatred whatsoever? would you agree or disagree with the idea that a free being should be allowed to express themselves in a manner which others may find repugnant?
to be honest with you i'm not sure how anyone has arrogated to themselves the ability to know the thoughts of those beings burning Al Qu'ran despite their publicity seeking sound bites... and it's not as if they are expressing any particularly outrageous views in that they think every religion other than Christianity is from their devil. i'm fairly sure that if they thought it would be an effective protest they would burn the Tipitaka when H.H. the Dalai Lama came to town
There isn't a bit of intersubjective evidence to show that burning Qur'ans will bring the world any closer to peace. Certainly, it won't bring the book burners closer to peace of mind.
however nobody has offered this as a reason to do so, a bit of a red herring there. it has been repeatedly stated by innumerable people, yourself included, that this action will create *more* death and destruction than the islamofascists would *normally* cause yet there is no evidence that this is so. indeed, it would seem that people that advocate such a view have to view all Muslims as some sort of ignorant children that are incapable of understanding how 50 people do not represent 300,000,000 some odd people, of understanding how cultures are different from one country to the next and so forth. i hear POTUS saying that *this* is action will be a primary if not *the* primary recruiting tool for Al Qaeda even though they have specifically mentioned the military presence in Saudi Arabia and a whole host of other grievances that they have.
if it would be such a great recruiting tool why haven't they just hired some actors to do it and film and and use it?
this sounds suspiciously like the whole yellow cake uranium thing... just using fear to manipulate the people.
i would, naturally, agree that burning books isn't likely to lead them to peace of mind however the Buddhist literature is repleat with stories of the moment of Satori happening at the most bizzare and seemingly "unBuddhist" moments. granted, they've probably not properly prepared their mindstreams for such things but then i'm not in a position to know that.
on a personal level, i don't think it has anything to do with hate, or religion or protest or anything like that... i think that the pastor is a crook and attention seeker and that it's little more than a narcissist trying to feed his narcissism.
metta,
~v
ABBA'S FOOL,
