This is seriously evil!

[mcswan]

Maybe they're talking about the rivers of blood, so many dead bodies that the birds are called in to feast on the flesh, people being burned to death, praying for death, ect. in the New Testaments.

And Christ calls us to do that? You have a serious flaw in your reading of the bible, my friend!

There is a significant difference between our being spectators in a prophecy of end times on one hand, and being exhorted - not for specific circumstances as Israel was in the Hebrew writings, but for all time - to:

Slay the unbelievers wherever you catch them (2:191)

Fight them until there is no more dissent and religion is that of Allah (2:193)

 

[pgp_protector]

Must I really remind you of the sheer brutality contained in the Bible? It's as violent as it gets.

And that would be....the Old Testament? Or are you referring to your imaginary scriptures where Jesus calls us to cut off the heads of unbelievers and stone adulterous women to death?

As the bible progresses from the early history of Israelites to today, the theme moves from a message of violence to one of love. The Qur'an, however, goes the other way.

Maybe they're talking about the rivers of blood, so many dead bodies that the birds are called in to feast on the flesh, people being burned to death, praying for death, ect. in the New Testaments.

And Christ calls us to do that? You have a serious flaw in your reading of the bible, my friend!

There is a significant difference between our being spectators in a prophecy of end times on one hand, and being exhorted - not for specific circumstances as Israel was in the Hebrew writings, but for all time - to:

Slay the unbelievers wherever you catch them (2:191)

Fight them until there is no more dissent and religion is that of Allah (2:193)

Umm you may wish to Read the Chain of Quotes again.
No one was talking about violence people did, but just violence in general in this chain.

After all God is the Same God in the Old Testaments as the New, or are you saying God Changes even though the bible states that God doesn't change?

 

[awitch]

Yes, so? Were they protesting Christianity? Intent matters. The message one is sending matters. I'm not talking about the combustion of paper fibers in an oxygen-rich atmosphere.

Turns out those Bibles were sent to the military unsolicited with the intent to be distributed to the Muslims to convert them to Christianity. The military is forbidden from proselytizing, and is required to burn all of their trash while in a war zone.

source

 

[mcswan]

Umm you may wish to Read the Chain of Quotes again.
No one was talking about violence people did, but just violence in general in this chain.

After all God is the Same God in the Old Testaments as the New, or are you saying God Changes even though the bible states that God doesn't change?

Really? Violence is not related at all to what actual people actually do, it's just an abstract concept.

Good to know. No actual violence will be done by actual Muslims in response to actual burnings of the Qur'an.

God doesn't change: mankind's maturity and expectations and relationship with God change. There's a reason that, through the course of the Bible, God goes from being a physical reality in our lives (walking with Adam and Eve in the garden, appearing in physical form to Abraham, struggling with Jacob) to being with us in the form of the Holy Spirit. We move from tribal revenge killings to loving our neighbor, without having to have God physically at our elbows. At least those of us not shaped and guided by the Quar'n do.

Islam, guided by the Qur'an, is not a religion of peace, it's a religion of violence. There are elements within Islam that, with reform, can result in a religion of peace. Many Muslims are calling for, working for, just such reform.

“The Trouble with Islam Today: A Muslim’s Call for Reform in Her Faith” by Irshad Manji | Bookstove

"With the world as it is today I felt I must read this Muslim woman’s passionate book about her faith and what it has become. I was not disappointed."

"This is a book written with passion from a love for God as revealed in Islam and a hatred of what Islam has become in the contemporary world."

"Irshad Manji is a Muslim woman who was expelled from Uganda as a child with other Asian families by Idi Amin and started a new life in Canada. In Toronto she experienced the contrast of western freedom and the harsh, closed minded, unreflective attitudes of the Islamic classes in the madrassa where thinking was actively discouraged. The book is written as an open letter to Muslims to encourage them to be reflective and to engage with the western modernity. The book is full of detail on the rich history of Islam."

"Her survey indicates that what is wrong with Islam is tribal insularity, deep seated anti-Semitism, and an uncritical acceptance of the Koran as the final and therefore superior manifesto of God’s will. The Koran is learned by rote in a language alien to most Muslims and its contradictions and inconsistencies are ignored as it is interpreted by authoritarian male dominated conservative societies. Her vision is of a reformed Islam that empowers women, promotes respect for religious minorities and fosters a competition of ideas. She wants to revive the idea of “ijtihad” the lost tradition of independent thinking that flourished in a past golden ageof liberal Islam"

 

[razeontherock]

I find this to be a very beautiful perspective on the Koran burnings:

yes! this is it! precisely the point! ART has many functions not least of which is to demolish conceptual barriers and ideological prisons! just look at the positive benefit this action has had.. and it hasn't even happened yet! just the very idea of it!! we have people of all religious and scoio-economic backgrounds coming together to express their disapproval of this action! it's hard to find examples in our recent history of an idea which has united so many diverse beings.

I would've never looked at it that way. Thank you for sharing that. How ironic is it that the last time such unity was created was in the wake of 9/11?

 

[razeontherock]

I'm sure that will be a great comfort to families of Americans overseas who may die as a result of the offense caused by that "art".

Watch out, with logic like that the next thing you know our military will be doing it. This is the exact reasoning employed in abandoning our POWs in Nam, (etc) to show we're "too tough to care."

Didn't Forrest Gump have something to say about that?

 

[pgp_protector]

Burning Canceled.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7497701/

 

[mcswan]

Burning Canceled.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7497701/

That's good news.

 

[awitch]

Burning Canceled.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7497701/

I wonder what's going to happen to the pastor now. With most of the world hating him and his little congregation (to the point they need to carry side arms with them) I don't see how his congregation is going to grow any. And since he canceled I bet the existing congregation will not see him with the same prestige.

(Also, his websites were taking down for violating the hate speech clause in the hosting company's contract).

 

[pgp_protector]

I wonder what's going to happen to the pastor now. With most of the world hating him and his little congregation (to the point they need to carry side arms with them) I don't see how his congregation is going to grow any. And since he canceled I bet the existing congregation will not see him with the same prestige.

(Also, his websites were taking down for violating the hate speech clause in the hosting company's contract).

The only logical step for him next is....

The Talk show circuit.

Then a book.

 

[awitch]

The only logical step for him next is....

The Talk show circuit.

Then a book.

He could pull a Haggard and disappear for a little bit then come back after seeing the light.

 

[mcswan]

I wonder what's going to happen to the pastor now. With most of the world hating him and his little congregation (to the point they need to carry side arms with them) I don't see how his congregation is going to grow any. And since he canceled I bet the existing congregation will not see him with the same prestige.

(Also, his websites were taking down for violating the hate speech clause in the hosting company's contract).

I suspect he'll gradually disappear from public view, his congregation will leave in dribs and drabs and we won't have to hear from him again. He's not the first kook to strut around for a few minutes.

 

[Glass*Soul]

I suspect he'll gradually disappear from public view, his congregation will leave in dribs and drabs and we won't have to hear from him again. He's not the first kook to strut around for a few minutes.

Apparently the kooky strutting is only icing on the cake. According to the Daily Kos, he is a con artist of long standing.

Daily Kos: State of the Nation.

Click the links. They're fascinating.

He will leave when he is done milking this congregation or when the authorities begin looking a little too closely into his doings...which should be right about now.

 

[Kufffar]

What I'm not understanding is that if Islam is perceived as such a threat to Christians, why are they not fighting back by being the very Love, Compassion and Forgiveness that Jesus Christ IS? And with that, I'm not understanding why they do not raise the bar, in a really, really big way, and actually manifest Jesus Christ in their hearts and in their lives! It seems to me that in doing that will do way more to convert others to their faith than anything else ever will. Why? Because Love attracts others.


.

Welcoming and embracing a false religion that attacks christianity is Not what Jesus would have done. He never embraced the multitude of roman gods that existed in his day. And yes, christians are loving their neighbors and being killed for it. When islam takes over the world, G*d will judge the murderers who killed the christians. Lovely story isn't it.

 

[Kufffar]

.next

 

[Kufffar]

As for pastor Jones, he now says he was lied to by the Imam, (which is not surprising). What are the chances he will light up the night still?

Someone else will come around and torch some books. The story has become so sensationalized that someone will fall to temptation.

 

[awitch]

As for pastor Jones, he now says he was lied to by the Imam, (which is not surprising). What are the chances he will light up the night still?

As I understand, the pastor was lying about the deal. The Imam denied there was ever an agreement. I didn't find any reports of negotiations between the two prior to his announcement. Why would the pastor not mention it?

Someone else will come around and torch some books.

Eventually, I'm sure someone will.

Isn't there a Neopagan tradition that dictates a Witch's Book of Shadows is to be burned upon the owner's death?

 

[kiwimac]

As for pastor Jones, he now says he was lied to by the Imam, (which is not surprising). What are the chances he will light up the night still?

Someone else will come around and torch some books. The story has become so sensationalized that someone will fall to temptation.

Why do you assume it was the Muslim who lied?

 

[razeontherock]

OK Parkay has NOTHING to do with this (where'd I get Chiffon from?) but awitch -

you owe me a monitor cleaning!

 

[Kufffar]

Why assume the pastor told the truth and imam lied? Because islam allows LYING in a matter of reconcyling differences such as the one presented with Pastor Jones.


"Ibn Shihab said he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)." (Book 32, Hadith 6303)

I question the integrity of those posing this question since I believe them to be up to speed on these islamic details. Why antagonize? Why do I bother pointing this out? Maybe some here did not know until now.