This is seriously evil!

[Eudaimonist]

As to the OP, I would agree that violence is never a solution, however, the burning of some books is a statement on the rejection of islam. It is clear and to the point. It is valid in purging theology of a religion. Hurting some feelings is a mute point when theologically, heaven or hell is the destination for someone's choice of religion.

Oh, great! I'll start burning Bibles right away. I'm sure that everyone will think that my message is clear and to the point, and not sacrilegious or blasphemous in any way. No Christians will ask me to stop. They will thank me for my efforts.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[awitch]

As to the OP, I would agree that violence is never a solution, however, the burning of some books is a statement on the rejection of islam.

Because it's hard to tell what people disapprove of if it's not set on fire?

It is clear and to the point. It is valid in purging theology of a religion. Hurting some feelings is a mute point when theologically, heaven or hell is the destination for someone's choice of religion.

"Purging theology of a religion" means what exactly?

I'm trying to imagine how this works:
Christian: I'm burning your holy book.
Muslim: Boo-hoo, I guess I'll convert to Christianity now.

 

[vajradhara]

Oh, great! I'll start burning Bibles right away. I'm sure that everyone will think that my message is clear and to the point, and not sacrilegious or blasphemous in any way. No Christians will ask me to stop. They will thank me for my efforts.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Namaste mark,

the united states military burned bibles which they confiscated in Afghanistan:
U.S. Military Burns Bibles In Afghanistan | Video Cafe

metta,

~v

 

[Eudaimonist]

the united states military burned bibles which they confiscated in Afghanistan:

Yes, so? Were they protesting Christianity? Intent matters. The message one is sending matters. I'm not talking about the combustion of paper fibers in an oxygen-rich atmosphere.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Catherineanne]

At last count they had about 150 and planned to burn 200.

I very much doubt they have that many.

For a Christian, any translation of the Bible is a Bible. Burn any of these translations, and the Bible is burned. I am not sure why anyone would want to do such a thing, but if they do, then I can't stop them. God will no doubt have something to say about it, but it is not my concern.

To Moslems, as I understand it, translations of the Koran are NOT the Koran; they are translations, to aid understanding, but do not have the same status as a Koran in Arabic. This is the same as in Judaism, where the true and most holy Scripture is the Sefer Torah. Translations from it are of course respected, but do not have the same level of absolute sanctity.

Unless that church is burning the Koran in Arabic, it is not burning Korans. A small point, perhaps, but a very important one. Burning translations of the Koran may be ignorant and misguided, but in Islam it is not the same magnitude of behaviour as burning the actual Koran.

And to get this in perspective somewhat, Moslems have done more than their fair share of burning unauthorised editions of the Koran in Arabic over the years. It is not unheard of.

 

[Catherineanne]

As to the OP, I would agree that violence is never a solution, however, the burning of some books is a statement on the rejection of islam. It is clear and to the point.

Anyone who believes that their personal political point in burning any book is going to be the interpretation of everyone watching such burning has to be very, very stupid indeed.

Personally, I put such political book burners in the 'semi literate yob' category, whatever they may believe their motivation to be.

 

[Eudaimonist]

To Moslems, as I understand it, translations of the Koran are NOT the Koran; they are translations, to aid understanding, but do not have the same status as a Koran in Arabic.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Don't tell the Qur'an burners.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste merryheart,

thank you for the post.

I think most Americans don't really understand the level of offense - even those who agree it is an act of hatred...

It is not so much equivalent to burning an American flag, as it is equivalent to the art work of men like Andres Serrano - which although also not illegal in the USA, is deeply offensive to the majority of Christians and is considered an attack on our faith.

yes! this is it! precisely the point! ART has many functions not least of which is to demolish conceptual barriers and ideological prisons! just look at the positive benefit this action has had.. and it hasn't even happened yet! just the very idea of it!! we have people of all religious and scoio-economic backgrounds coming together to express their disapproval of this action! it's hard to find examples in our recent history of an idea which has united so many diverse beings.

Every Muslim I have known is extremely offended by disrespect displayed towards *any* holy book or *any* prophet. I get constant questions from my Muslim friends about US comedy that depicts our religious figures in irreverent ways

you must not know as many Muslims as i or perhaps the ones you know are Western or some such. in my religions homeland, for instance, the Muslims have a long and horriffic history of religious persecution and political marginalization. if it wasn't for the heroic efforts of a few Rajputs Buddhism would have be completely destroyed in its homeland. as it stands, the Muslim invaders destroyed the largest university in the world at the time, Nalanda, simply due to it being the seat of Mahayana Buddhism.

in any event, every being is different so it shouldn't be surprising to find Muslims that have similar views to ours or ones which are quite disparate.

metta,

~v

 

[Eudaimonist]

yes! this is it! precisely the point! ART has many functions not least of which is to demolish conceptual barriers and ideological prisons! just look at the positive benefit this action has had.. and it hasn't even happened yet! just the very idea of it!! we have people of all religious and scoio-economic backgrounds coming together to express their disapproval of this action! it's hard to find examples in our recent history of an idea which has united so many diverse beings.

I'm sure that will be a great comfort to families of Americans overseas who may die as a result of the offense caused by that "art".


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Celticflower]

Question:wouldn't this guy's "message" be better sent by burning the writings of the extremist leaders rather than the Koran? Their stuff is available in books and on the internet, so finding the fuel shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Question:wouldn't this guy's "message" be better sent by burning the writings of the extremist leaders rather than the Koran? Their stuff is available in books and on the internet, so finding the fuel shouldn't be a problem.

That's a good idea. It would at least make some sense.

Unfortunately, the pastor's intended message is that Islam is not Christian, and therefore of the devil.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste mark,

thank you for the post.

Yes, so? Were they protesting Christianity?

it seems that they were protesting the spread of Christianity in Afghanistan.. though protesting doesn't seem like the right word.

Intent matters. The message one is sending matters. I'm not talking about the combustion of paper fibers in an oxygen-rich atmosphere.

you didn't state what your message was, you just said that you'd burn some Bibles and suggested that Christians would be happy about it, implying that they would, in fact, not be happy about it.

Christians weren't happy about it when the military burned the Bibles, as far as i can tell, and many took it as an assault upon their faith.

as it turns out, intent is only related to ones own mindstream, a beings reactions to an event is related to their own mindstream. naturally i agree that intent is of paramount importance, which is why i think these guys are going to fail. they could have done the same thing with an artistic intent and then they wouldn't have failed.

metta,

~v

 

[mcswan]

Originally Posted by Catherineanne

To Moslems, as I understand it, translations of the Koran are NOT the Koran; they are translations, to aid understanding, but do not have the same status as a Koran in Arabic.
​

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Don't tell the Qur'an burners.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Nothing to worry about then, what's your objection? Those faux Qur'ans are no more holy than last months Hustler magazine.

That Petraeus just doesn't know what he's talking about. Give him a call.

 

[mcswan]

Question:wouldn't this guy's "message" be better sent by burning the writings of the extremist leaders rather than the Koran? Their stuff is available in books and on the internet, so finding the fuel shouldn't be a problem.

That extremist leader has a name: Muhammad

 

[Celticflower]

That extremist leader has a name: Muhammad

I was referring to the current crop, not dead ones.

 

[mcswan]

I was referring to the current crop, not dead ones.

The violent religion/philosophy/political/legal system lives on.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

The violent religion/philosophy/political/legal system lives on.

Must I really remind you of the sheer brutality contained in the Bible? It's as violent as it gets.

 

[mcswan]

Must I really remind you of the sheer brutality contained in the Bible? It's as violent as it gets.

And that would be....the Old Testament? Or are you referring to your imaginary scriptures where Jesus calls us to cut off the heads of unbelievers and stone adulterous women to death?

As the bible progresses from the early history of Israelites to today, the theme moves from a message of violence to one of love. The Qur'an, however, goes the other way.

 

[pgp_protector]

And that would be....the Old Testament? Or are you referring to your imaginary scriptures where Jesus calls us to cut off the heads of unbelievers and stone adulterous women to death?

As the bible progresses from the early history of Israelites to today, the theme moves from a message of violence to one of love. The Qur'an, however, goes the other way.

Maybe they're talking about the rivers of blood, so many dead bodies that the birds are called in to feast on the flesh, people being burned to death, praying for death, ect. in the New Testaments.

 

[dlamberth]

Must I really remind you of the sheer brutality contained in the Bible? It's as violent as it gets.

And than there is the actual historical record of sheer brutality brought on by Christians during these past 2000 years that I'm reminded of as well.

.