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Featured This is Rediculous

Discussion in 'Current News & Events (Articles Required)' started by Introverted1293, Aug 29, 2020.

  1. GirdYourLoins

    GirdYourLoins Well-Known Member

    +811
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    The bubonic plague was spread by fleas. Covid19 is spread in water droplets in your breath. the difference is clear to see. Your argument is clearly flawed.
     
  2. dms1972

    dms1972 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think wearing masks when on buses and trains, planes etc. makes a good deal of sense, because these can be crowded spaces and some people may be coughing in that environment. Passengers are also beside people longer and cannot move around very easily. I think its good if someone who becomes symptomatic (ie. starts coughing) already has a mask on, as it may catch most of the germs. At least it might stop it spreading to multiple people standing or sitting nearby. It may not be perfect, but lets not make the perfect the enemy of the good in this instance. Any spread on public transport would be less localised, and someone could catch the virus and take it into their office or school. So during this sort of epidemic, masks on public transport = good idea to me.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2020
  3. GirdYourLoins

    GirdYourLoins Well-Known Member

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    Do I believe the disease is real? Yes
    Do I believe the need for masks is real? Yes.
    Do I believe that people who do not wear masks are selfish? Yes.
    The reason being, masks are being worn to stop you breathing out the virus in water droplets on your breath, which reduces the risk of other people getting it. While a fit and healthy person might think it is nothing, it can be devastating to someone with health conditions or the elderly. By not wearing a mask it is them you are putting at risk, not yourselves.
    So by not wearing masks you may well be killiing other people. When you stand before God on judgement day what will you do if he says you killed people by disobeying the law of the land and not wearing a mask?
    And I know that people will think I am wrong saying the virus is real, but you have to remember there were claims the Chinese were trying to develop a virus to cause a pandemic that would cripple the rest of the world and allow them to buy up a lot of property and business to make themselves the most powerful nation on earth. We have had SARS, avian flu, swine flu, etc and now this coming out of China. Do you think that is a coincidence?
     
  4. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

    +2,232
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    How has saving the economy been working out for them? To have an economy, you have to have people working and shopping and not hiding at home.
     
  5. dms1972

    dms1972 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't think you are wrong saying the virus is real. Only a complete numbskull would think it wasn't. I don't think its a man-made virus either, man made cannot improve on nature, you cannot make a super-virus. But I strongly disagree with all the alarmism, and fear mongering.

    Creating a virus that could not be controlled and might decimate their own country, or keep coming back - I don't think even communists would be that stupid.

    I leave other people to decide to wear a mask, and I don't know if there are health conditions that mean wearing a mask is not possible for a few.

    But its these massive parties, sometimes announced on social media and were the host most likely doesn't know his guests, those I think are rather selfish and foolish.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2020
  6. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

    +6,584
    United States
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    Blood clots that the virus produces a usually small, and it is hard to tell. The do believe that a lot of the lung problems are to to multiple tiny blood clots and they are routinely giving more blood thinners now as part of the protocol. They may not pose a problem for a long time and then one or more dislodges, travels, they get together and form a larger more dangerous one. But depending on the size of your arteries and the size of the clot, it might not be lethal, but pose blood flow problems to various parts of the body. It would not take very much of a blood clot for me as my arteries have always been very small. Those that exercise routinely will have bigger arteries and may have no symptoms at all. Which doesn't mean they are not there. They can manifest themselves when body parts are turning blue/red--a finger, or hand, same for feet and toes. I know about mine from an angiogram years ago.
     
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  7. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

    +7,557
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    It's kind of a return to the village. That was the way things were for millennia. Everyone in town knew your business. I grew up in a town on an island. And everyone knew pretty much everything about everyone else. The anonymous life is a fairly new thing, and never a universal condition for humans.

    But I'm puzzled how you think wearing a mask makes you more visible. It makes you less visible.
     
  8. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

    +7,557
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    There's really no point in denying the fact that they are useful. People wouldn't be wearing them in operating rooms if they weren't useful in lowering virus particles.

    The American Journal of Surgery
    Volume 114, Issue 3, September 1967, Pages 431-435
    A study of disposable surgical masks
    Abstract
    A combined in vivo and in vitro testing method for surgical masks is presented. The mask to be tested was placed over the nose and mouth of a manikin which was accurately constructed according to human measurements. The manikin was placed in a special counting chamber and a known number of bacteria were blown through the mask by a nebulizer and an automatic respirator, closely simulating a human sneeze or cough. The chamber was then evacuated completely through an Andersen sampler so that all bacteria in the chamber which had not been retained by the mask could be collected and counted within this sampler. The efficiency of the different masks was expressed as the percentage of bacteria retained by the masks as compared to a control when the manikin did not wear a mask. The set-up closely resembled that of a surgeon bent over a patient in the operating room when he coughs or sneezes while wearing a mask.

    The relative efficiency of the different masks was found to be in this descending order: polypropylene fibers (Filtron), polyester-rayon fibers (Aseptex), glass fibers (Deseret), and paper.

    There's a lot of that in the medical literature. They wear masks, because they reduce exposure to pathogens given off by OR teams.
     
  9. solid_core

    solid_core Well-Known Member

    +1,542
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    But you were anonymous in the next village. Now, you are anonymous nowhere. Your internet history and other digital tracks like social number records, credit card, mobile phone etc go with you wherever you are. Also, thanks to everywhere-present cameras, they can also see you all the time, real time.

    I did not say that.
     
  10. Tony Ramirez

    Tony Ramirez Christian with Asperger's Syndrome

    211
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    This unessasy political pandemic is what I called it put in real depression. Masks are useless all they make everyone look like mindless drones with no emotions and they are ugly. The fascist government forces it on you.

    Having to stay apart from people also does not prevent the virus. It is going to spread no matter what. All it does is cause social isolation which is bad for your mental and physical health.

    Then arrested people who want to have some fun in this dictatorship 2020 year for gathering is going too far.

    Really this pandemic if you can call it that it that is way overblown. Most people survive yet they always look at the deaths. Shutting everything down is unessesary all all it did was ruin people's lives with lost jobs that did not need to be lost.

    You can disagree with me.
     
  11. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

    +7,557
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    Only where you'd encounter others. Your house and to some degree, you car, are protected Constitutionally. It's not an absolute issue with a personal vehicle, but it is still somewhat protected.

    About 330 million. Even with admittedly incomplete tallies of deaths, COVID-19 is now the 3rd leading cause of death in the United States. About 180,000 dead, looking to top out about 300,000 before the current outbreak ends.

    You have some data for that? I suppose when you're very old, another year or two is a bigger deal that it might seem. Would you consider a couple of years lopped off your lifetime to be an issue?

    (Barbarian checks)

    Well, about 40 percent of the deaths are residents or healthcare workers at nursing homes. But the percentage is now dropping as the virus is being spread more widely.

    Clusters are no longer mostly related to hospitals, nursing homes, and so on. Things like that bike rally in Sturgis, which spread dozens of clusters, for example. There have been 83 cases from that mess-up in Minnesota,alone:
    MDH COVID-19 briefing: 46 Minnesota infections linked to Sturgis rally, cluster outbreaks on the rise

    Ah, real...

    When Ahmad Ayyad woke up, he was delirious. He didn't realize where he was, why there was a tube down his throat, or how long it had been since he last fed his dog.
    And when he looked down, he couldn't recognize himself. Once a 215-pound athlete with chiseled muscles and astounding strength, the 40-year-old looked like a completely different person.
    "I woke up and looked at my arms, my legs, and my muscles were gone," he said. "I was kind of freaking out, like where are my legs? Where did my legs go?"
    Ayyad is a coronavirus survivor.
    Doctors had placed him in an induced coma for 25 days to save his life.
    It's been a little over two months since those touch-and-go days and he's still recovering. Still out of breath at times. Still nursing the damage to his lung and heart.
    But he has a message -- for those who refuse to wear a mask during this pandemic, for those dismissive of public health guidance, for those in the prime of their health and feel invincible against coronavirus.
    "It worries me a lot seeing people take this lightly," he told CNN on Tuesday. "I got it and survived, and I'm still terrified."
    He was an athlete in the best shape of his life. Then Covid-19 nearly killed him - CNN

    That's real.
     
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  12. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

    +7,557
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    Yeah. The "Global Village." Been building since the 1960s. Marshal McLuhan, and all that.

    So what was the rant about lack of anonymity about, then? Masks don't increase your exposure. They actually make it harder to track you.
     
  13. The Barbarian

    The Barbarian Crabby Old White Guy

    +7,557
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    Now you're confusing everyone by bringing facts into the discussion. This isn't about reality for some people, you know.
     
  14. solid_core

    solid_core Well-Known Member

    +1,542
    Austria
    Protestant
    Single
    It was just a reaction that to ban parties in a covid time is a government's desire to control... so I only reacted, that the real control is in the background of our lives, that everything important about our life is recorded.

    People sometimes see small things like that some party was dismissed and think that its super important, but do not see the big picture they already got used to.
     
  15. Redwingfan9

    Redwingfan9 Well-Known Member

    +1,502
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    There is by no means scientific consensus on this issue. I've got a dozen articles that say in non-sterile environments they're useless.
     
  16. solid_core

    solid_core Well-Known Member

    +1,542
    Austria
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    Post some.
     
  17. Redwingfan9

    Redwingfan9 Well-Known Member

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    The notion that science has determined that masks are going to save us from Chinese Coronavirus (or any other disease) is utter tosh. Anyone telling you science is settled on any issue should raise a red flag. On masks, science isn't close to settled.

    The British Journal of Medicine says cloth masks are 97% useless. A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers

    A study of the more serious 1918 flu pandemic showed masks useless. The American Journal of Public Health (AJPH) from the American Public Health Association (APHA) publications

    Another study shows cloth masks useless compared to surgical masks. A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers

    Other studies show cloth masks useless compared to surgical masks, even the latter are questionable. They include:
    https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bio/23/2/23_61/_pdf/-char/en

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...-su9_me9_vY6a8KVR4HZ17J2A_80f_fXUABRQdhQlc8Wo
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2493952/pdf/annrcse01509-0009.pdf

    https://www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/0195-6701(91)90148-2/pdf

    Simple Respiratory Protection—Evaluation of the Filtration Performance of Cloth Masks and Common Fabric Materials Against 20–1000 nm Size Particles

    Masks are associated with oxygen deprivation and increased rates of infection according to these studies:

    [Effect of a surgical mask on six minute walking distance] - PubMed

    "Exercise with facemask; Are we handling a devil's sword?" - A physiological hypothesis - PubMed

    Healthcare personnel exposure in an emergency department during influenza season - PubMed

    The physiological impact of wearing an N95 mask during hemodialysis as a precaution against SARS in patients with end-stage renal disease - PubMed

    Respiratory consequences of N95-type Mask usage in pregnant healthcare workers-a controlled clinical study - PubMed

    A 2015 British study on surgical masks revealed masks don't really protect patient or surgeon very much. And that's in sterile settings. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...-KkzpdkmzltnAf-GXp7gMeQkkyeZJ6gEs7G5h8PHln_R0

    Finally, one New England Journal of Medicine editorial acknowledged the uselessness of masks but demanded universal masking nonetheless less for its placebo effect. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

    There is plenty of evidence out there that masks and mask mandates aren't working and in fact are causing harm. They're a placebo to make you think you're protected and to make politicians look like they're doing something when they're in reality doing nothing.

    Do your own research.
     
  18. solid_core

    solid_core Well-Known Member

    +1,542
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    I checked the first two. Of course, nobody proposes that health care workers in hospitals etc should wear cloth masks instead of surgical masks.

    That would be illogical, its just a cloth, it cannot work in such environment and for so long.

    The cloth masks are recommended for a general population, for example in a public transport, combined with social distancing. If you will have one wet, dirty cloth mask all day or in a party, of course its useless. Not to say for a health worker working closely with people for hours.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2020
  19. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +13,164
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    I agree that the shutdown has been a catastrophe but the spread of the virus has been a catastrophe for the economy. So why make it even worse by continuing to spread the virus when there are simple things we can do to mitigate the spread so that businesses can stay open? :scratch: and kids can go back to school? :scratch: so their parents can keep working? :scratch:
     
  20. GraceBro

    GraceBro Eternally Forgiven, Alive, and Secure.

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    ...meanwhile, COVID-19 has a 99.5% survival rate. This isn't about masks at all.
     
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