This is Rediculous

[dms1972]

Just checking to see if it was real or another right-wing disinformation attempt. You link is some tabloid, that doesn't link to the supposed "government study."

Anyone else have a checkable link? (not holding my breath)

Sorry I see you are not from UK - the issue of excess deaths was covered by at least three papers in the UK - including The Telegraph in the UK a respected broadsheet. What they reported was from Government Analysts, and the Office of National Statistics in the UK: Link at the bottom

Some of the salient points in regard to the effect of the lockdown, long and short term.

• Over the whole period presented from March 2020 to more than five years from now, there are approximately 25,000 excess deaths resulting from social distancing and economic impacts in the chosen scenario.

• Approximately 16,000 excess deaths are estimated because of changes in emergency care and social care within a year from March 2020 – the majority of these are deaths in care homes; changes to elective care, primary, and community care are not expected to result in deaths in the short term in this scenario.

• Socio-economic effects are estimated to have the greatest impact on quality of life of all categories investigated, over the short and long term combined; from March 2020 to more than five years from now, the impacts of lockdown and a resulting recession are estimated to reduce England’s health by over 970,000 QALYs – the health impacts of contracting COVID-19 are still unclear in the long term, but between March 2020 and March 2021, these represent 570,000 lost QALYs.

Estimating the impacts of coronavirus on England’s mortality and morbidity - Office for National Statistics

These figures are estimates. I am not sure why the ONS uses the more concrete "there are..." gramatical construction on projections/predictions over the next 5 years. But the figure of 16,000 non-covid deaths was attibuted to attendances at A&E being down by about half and to deaths in care homes.

 

[dms1972]

You are most likely to develop a zinc deficiency while fighting a disease if your reserves are marginal. You did not know this?

There is nothing wrong with taking a suppliment, however the idea put forward that only zinc lozenges are of use seems a bit silly, or that zinc is the only thing needed for a healthly immune system.

 

[dms1972]

The rules don't apply to those making the rules. It's only for us little people.

Two Irish MLAs and the European Trade Commissioner for Ireland had to resign following attending a Golfing Dinner in August, where eighty were in attendance despite the rules having been revised from 50 max down to 6 max. So the rules do seem to apply at least in some parts of the world.

 

[dms1972]

Im vitamin D deficient, so I only go out of absolutely necessary. Hopefully this chaos will lessen so I can get a check up done.

I truly hope it does. Is it possible to suppliment that, or amend your diet to get more vitamin D?

 

[mmksparbud]

There is nothing wrong with taking a suppliment, however the idea put forward that only zinc lozenges are of use seems a bit silly, or that zinc is the only thing needed for a healthly immune system.

Well, it may have come across as that, I guess. I had heard it a long time ago, and at that point this panel of doctors discussing said, it was the only thing that right then killed the virus on contact and they all agreed. However, I can not access that one panel discussion anymore, I was going to put it up. I do believe that was before the hydro stuff even. So I doubt that today, that is the only thing. But it won't hurt to just take a generic lozenge. And yes, I and several other nurses and doctors have taken them for years without any troubles from them.

 

[The Barbarian]

And yes, I and several other nurses and doctors have taken them for years without any troubles from them.

I'm reminded of the bricklayer in Brooklyn who fell from his scaffold. And the neighbors gathered around, one woman shouted "give him some chicken soup!'

Reminded that chicken soup wasn't going to do anything for a broken wrist, she said "It wouldn't hurt."

Which is true of zinc lozenges. They are not very toxic, and you can take several times the recommended daily intake, without noticeable ill effects.

 

[mmksparbud]

I'm reminded of the bricklayer in Brooklyn who fell from his scaffold. And the neighbors gathered around, one woman shouted "give him some chicken soup!'

Reminded that chicken soup wasn't going to do anything for a broken wrist, she said "It wouldn't hurt."

Which is true of zinc lozenges. They are not very toxic, and you can take several times the recommended daily intake, without noticeable ill effects.

Old Jewish joke. Anything goes wrong----Chicken Soup is the answer.
I make Jewish/Italian/Mexican penicillin---Chicken soup with lot and lots of garlic and Jalapenos---fix that wrist in no time!

 

[The Barbarian]

Old Jewish joke. Anything goes wrong----Chicken Soup is the answer.
I make Jewish/Italian/Mexican penicillin---Chicken soup with lot and lots of garlic and Jalapenos---fix that wrist in no time!

Actually, there is some evidence that chicken soup may have some useful effects on viruses:

Does chicken soup really help fight a cold? Yes! And scientists have the best recipe to follow

• Chicken soup can have anti-inflammatory affects that can ease the symptoms of colds, according to researchers
• Further studies found that the aroma, spices and heat from the soup can clear sinuses and decrease congestion
• A researcher from University of Nebraska put his 'grandma's soup' recipe to the test the myth that has been told for centuries

Chicken soup is proven to help fight off colds | Daily Mail Online

And I firmly believe that chiles are good for your immune system.

10 Amazing Health Benefits to Eating Hot Peppers [Scientifically Proven]

I suspect that eating a lot of garlic prevents colds by enhancing social distancing.

 

[dms1972]

Well, it may have come across as that, I guess. I had heard it a long time ago, and at that point this panel of doctors discussing said, it was the only thing that right then killed the virus on contact and they all agreed. However, I can not access that one panel discussion anymore, I was going to put it up. I do believe that was before the hydro stuff even. So I doubt that today, that is the only thing. But it won't hurt to just take a generic lozenge. And yes, I and several other nurses and doctors have taken them for years without any troubles from them.

Sure it probably won't do most people any harm to take a zinc lozenge and might have some preventative benefit. But the common cold is a rhinovirus, not a coronavirus.

The panel of doctors sounds well, little bit odd - what panel of doctors was that. These suppliements are to boost the immune system, they are not like disinfectants which kills on contact, and should not be drunk (even if dilute) for internal purposes (I must add that). So I am curious where you witnessed this panel discussion?, was Trump there? But I am ready to be proved wrong.

I don't want to discourage taking zinc lozenges, even if they help a cold then thats better than nothing - but we should not make wild claims either about their effectiveness.

Based on Science...Does zinc help fight the coronavirus? | National Academies

 

[mmksparbud]

Sure it probably won't do most people any harm to take a zinc lozenge and might have some preventative benefit. But the common cold is a rhinovirus, not a coronavirus.

The panel of doctors sounds well, little bit odd - what panel of doctors was that. These suppliements are to boost the immune system, they are not like disinfectants which kills on contact, and should not be drunk (even if dilute) for internal purposes (I must add that). So I am curious where you witnessed this panel discussion?, was Trump there? But I am ready to be proved wrong.

I don't want to discourage taking zinc lozenges, even if they help a cold then thats better than nothing - but we should not make wild claims either about their effectiveness.

Based on Science...Does zinc help fight the coronavirus? | National Academies

It was out of Loma Linda University.

 

[dms1972]

I'm reminded of the bricklayer in Brooklyn who fell from his scaffold. And the neighbors gathered around, one woman shouted "give him some chicken soup!'

Reminded that chicken soup wasn't going to do anything for a broken wrist, she said "It wouldn't hurt."

Which is true of zinc lozenges. They are not very toxic, and you can take several times the recommended daily intake, without noticeable ill effects.

Thats an amusing anecdote. But the point is while something might not hurt, if its all one takes it doesn't do any real good, and if someone develops COVID-19, well sucking a lozenge isn't going to hurt, but they might be better seeking medical advice.

 

[mmksparbud]

Thats an amusing anecdote. But the point is while something might not hurt, if its all one takes it doesn't do any real good, and if someone gets COVID-19, well sucking a lozenge isn't going to hurt, but they might be better to be treated medically with something such as Remdesivir.

Really? Well, thanks for pointing out the obvious!! Remdesivir came out as a drug for Hepatitis C. When that didn't work as hoped, they switched it around for Ebola. It is now being investigated for coronas---it has not yet been proven to be effective for anything. Thanks, but compared to just zinc, it can do more harm than good.

 

[dms1972]

Really? Well, thanks for pointing out the obvious!! Remde3sivir came out as a drug for Hepatitis C. When that didn't work as hoped, they switched it around for Ebola. It is now being investigate4d for coronas---it has not yet been proven to be effective for anything. Thanks, but compared to just zinc, it can do more harm than good.

Is there something wrong with it fundamentally in your opinion, do you think is there something wrong with developing synthetic medications?

Why are there reports of it helping with coronavirus? Stick to zinc lozenges, or suppliments if you prefer, as you say in moderation they will be ok for most people, but there are many other aspects involved in a healthy immune system.

I don't believe all that is said about this novel-coronavirus - I am waiting and praying for the true picture to emerge, which God willing, will happen at some point.

 

[dms1972]

Really? Well, thanks for pointing out the obvious!!

Believe me, sometimes its necessary. People can say "oh well done, thanks for pointing out the obvious!". But you can bet in some groups there are people who need it pointed out sometimes.

 

[mmksparbud]

Is there something wrong with it fundamentally in your opinion, do you think is there something wrong with developing synthetic medications?

Why are there reports of it helping with coronavirus? Stick to zinc lozenges if you want, no one was saying anyone has to take Remdesivir - I take back my comment, but there are many other aspects involved in a healthy immune system. I don't believe all that is said about this novel-coronavirus - I am waiting and praying for the true picture to emerge, which God willing, will happen at some point.

No, nothing wrong with synthetics. However, things can be found missing in them that we do not even know about. Such as Marijuana, they had synthetic and it was first thought it would be better than the natural, then they found things that are missing that now they knw is in the natural and the synthetic actually will do more harm than good. I don't even remember what those th9ngs were, I' ve not kept up.
It's like vit. C---you can just take the Vit C and maybe have a synthetic that would do the same thing. But then much later they found out about flavonoids, bioflavonoids and heparin, and other things in the natural stuff. Every new thing just ends up showing further along, how very complex even the smallest of things can be. We are very much, fearfully and wonderfully made. And we keep finding out new thi9ngs with better equipment that we did not have. Many things are found accidently when they were meant for one thing and not another. I'd just rather take the natural stuff over synthetic. And thesame with new bugs. After study8ng them, they found more and more about them and then the dang things start to morph. That is when things really get interesting--bizarringly so, for they start changing in unexpected ways.
30 years ago, MRSA was something that occurred in hospitals only. A patient was put in isolation unti8l 3 blood samples proved they were clear of it. Well, insurance companies and others got involved and it was determined that patients could go home with home antibiotics. Wrong move. MRSA is now all over the place and has morphed into what used to kill it, they then started to have for breakfast. As far as I'm concerned, had they not removed the isolation procedures, it would never have happened, but money talks. The isolation procedures were inconvenient, and were costly.
I pray they find out all about this virus. Unfortunately, it's taking longer to get to the bottom of things than they expected. It has morphed. We won't know all for a long time yet and people are anxious to get back to normal. Medicine is not as cut and dried as people think it is. And China is big on those fresh meat markets and they are horrible. They eat live animals also, and those places are a cesspool of bacteria. Nobody wants it to be something we eat, nobody wants to change their habits, so, it's easier to believe some weird lab experiment gone wrong.
I want them to find the truth about this virus. Unfortunately, it may take some time, and nobody wants to wait! 30 years ago, MRSA was found only in the hospitals. Patients with it had to go into isolation and stay there until 3 blood tests came back negative. Then insurance companies and hospital administrators got together and it was decided it was all too expensive and patients could go home but with antibiotics. What happened? Exactly what we all feared would happen, MRSA us all over the place now. What used to kill it, it now has for breakfast. It morphed. They have an instinct for survival better than ours! Now, we'll never get rid of it.

 

[The Barbarian]

It's like vit. C---you can just take the Vit C and maybe have a synthetic that would do the same thing.

Natural vitamin C:

Synthetic vitamin C:

Don't see any place to hide other stuff. There are other nutrients than vitamin C, but it is what it is. L-ascorbic acid.

 

[Hank77]

But still buckle your safety belt and wear your mask.

Deuteronomy 6:16 Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God, as thou temptedst him in the place of temptation.

Jesus, too.
Matthew 4
6And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

 

[The Barbarian]

If face masks are required to be worn by everyone (which would be pretty much unenforcable - and distract the police from normal policing tasks) - how would there be enough to go round - there is a limited supply.

Where I live, everyone in stores has them. Easy to make (instructions online) or to buy. Reusable.

A multifaceted approach is needed, not a one size suits all approach.

Sort of like mandatory seat belt use, but still enforce traffic and drunk driving laws.

 

[mmksparbud]

Natural vitamin C:

Synthetic vitamin C:

Don't see any place to hide other stuff. There are other nutrients than vitamin C, but it is what it is. L-ascorbic acid.

Like I said---but may do the same as Vit. C---but it does not have hesperidin, and other flavonoids that (and I should have said orange juice, or the like)occurs in natural orange juice. In other words, there is more to the affects of orange juice than just Vit. C. I did not word that correctly.

 

[The Barbarian]

Like I said---but may do the same as Vit. C---but it does not have hesperidin, and other flavonoids that (and I should have said orange juice, or the like)occurs in natural orange juice. In other words, there is more to the affects of orange juice than just Vit. C. I did not word that correctly.

Oh, sure. I see what you mean. There's a huge number of nutrients in OJ that's not in ascorbic acid, and ascorbic acid is not a replacement for nutritious food.

That being said, ascorbic acid tablets, given once a day to sailors in place of fresh fruit, would have eliminated scurvy. Your body can produce many of those other nutrients. Many other animals produce their own vitamin C, but primates have a broken vitamin C gene, and we can't make it.