This is not you grandfather's church.

[RadMan]

"District Presidents Tarnish LCMS Brand with New Entertainment Churches"

The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod has two new mission congregations that
sell entrainment to draw worshippers. The Michigan District has established
"Living Hope on the Bay" as its newest congregation. The District launched
the new mission two years ago with $400,000 and the blessing and
encouragement of Michigan District President William C. Hoesman.
http://www.livinghopeofthebay.org/

The English District has opened "Epic Church" in Rochester, Michigan.
English District President David Stechholz was the guest speaker when the
new congregational charter was signed.
http://epicvelocity.wordpress.com/2008/09/24/epic-church-charter-celebration
/

Living Hope on the Bay "worship services," if they can be called worship
services, have no invocation, liturgy, hymnbooks, robes, scripture lessons,
Lord's Prayer, or ecumenical Creeds. They call their open Communion
practice "our response" during which people are also invited to visit
friends, put money on the offering table, relax, drink coffee, meet others,
experience God, and have fun.

The pastor wears an open collar shirt and jeans and encourages decision
theology. They distribute materials published by Campus Crusade for Christ.
During the "service" information is projected on the screens and people
listen to rock music from the Director of Worship Arts, a former
self-ordained pastor of "Down to Earth Ministries" whom Pastor Paul Werner
confirmed.

"Epic Church" in Rochester, Michigan practices a worship style similar to
"Living Hope on the Bay."

In the summer of 2005 the previous English District President, Dr. David
Ritt, promoted and funded Epic Church which was started at Trinity in Utica,
a Michigan District Church. The church started with a man dressed in a
"Wookie" suit from "Star Wars" walking in front of Trinity Lutheran Church
with a sign that read, "Join the Rebellion." Ritt called it "cutting edge
missions."

Current District President David Stecholz says: "Pastor Kade is trying to do
an important thing."

Pastor Kade is well known for his sermon series on sex. Two small feet
point up with two large feet between them pointing down as the end of bed
are projected on the screen in front of the congregation.

Six of the sermon titles in Pastor Kade's series were:
"The Greatest Sex You'll Ever Have"
"The Bedroom: Battleground or Playground"
"Real Desperate Housewives"
"inappropriate content: What's the Big Deal?"
"Sex Ed: Teaching Children about Sex"
"Affair Proofing Your Marriage"

District President Stecholz responded to these titles saying, "He [Kade]
wants to bring about a thorough discussion on sexual intimacy from God's
point of view."

As more entertainment churches opened in LCMS districts the LCMS continues
to lose membership.

Since 2001, when Texas District President Gerald Kieschnick became
President, the LCMS has lost 175,000 members. The rate of loss is
increasing. In 2007 the LCMS lost 35,000 members.

In 2001, the newly-elected Kieschnick declared, "This is not your
grandfather's church." For many life long members, the LCMS has become an
unrecognizable, tarnished brand.

Many LCMS Lutherans no longer want to support missions.

There is new LCMS Church in Wayne Michigan, next to Detroit, called "The
Tabernacle of Praise." There is little information about this new Michigan
District Church.

__._,_.___

 

[joyfulthanks]

Dear RadMan,

I hate to hear this is happening. I've been desperately trying to get away from things like that for quite awhile. I grieve over things like these, and I understand how horrible and frustrating it can be to see these kinds of things happening. I've been very angry about similar things going on outside the Lutheran church for a very long time now.

I know I'm new here, and what I say probably won't mean anything to you, but I have found the local LCMS church we've been visiting to be a wonderful refuge from things like that. I praise God every day for what we've found here: for a pastor who seems intently focused on uncompromisingly preaching the Word of God and caring for the flock; for the beautiful, God honoring liturgy; for the sacramental life of the church (though we are not able to partake of it yet); and for people who seem committed to growing in Christ. God willing, I look forward to the day that I can be a member of the LCMS.

I'm deeply weary of constantly talking about what's wrong with the church, and of the root of bitterness that sprung up in my life as a result of my doing so which has defiled many (as the Scripture says). I don't want to obsess over these things anymore. I pray about them daily, but I am beginning to trust that the Lord is well able to take care of His church. I feel joyful, and encouraged about finding the LCMS.

Can you give me any reason to be hopeful? I'd love to hear what you find good about the LCMS.


Grace

 

[filosofer]

You will find many faithful pastors and congregations in the LCMS. They recognize that Word and Sacrament ministry is the heart of congregational life. They are not concerned with the latest trends, but with reaching the lost and spiritually feeding all who come through the door.

Rad's concern is with a National/Regional leadership committed away from congregational focus to centralized decision-making. It wouldn't surprise me to see a major shake up and realignment of Lutheran congregations - this is bigger than the problems plaguing the LCMS. If your congregation is solid, there is nothing to fear in the midst of all this; it may mean that the LCMS of 1930 will never be, but God's promise is that Church will remain, not the LCMS (or WELS, or ELS or ...).

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

These DPS, Pastors, and Congregations should pay for this. We need a President and Council of Presidents that should remove them from the Synod, permanently. Why don't confessional DP's speak out about this stuff? THIS [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ES ME OFF, who do the hierarchy think they are??? Well if they want an evangelical denomination they're certainly on their way.

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Oh you guys should go to Epic church's confession website http://mysecret.typepad.com/ and look at the last confession under comments. It'll amuse you. I promise.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

"District Presidents Tarnish LCMS Brand with New Entertainment Churches"

The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod has two new mission congregations that
sell entrainment to draw worshippers. The Michigan District has established
"Living Hope on the Bay" as its newest congregation. The District launched
the new mission two years ago with $400,000 and the blessing and
encouragement of Michigan District President William C. Hoesman.
http://www.livinghopeofthebay.org/

The English District has opened "Epic Church" in Rochester, Michigan.
English District President David Stechholz was the guest speaker when the
new congregational charter was signed.
http://epicvelocity.wordpress.com/2008/09/24/epic-church-charter-celebration
/

Living Hope on the Bay "worship services," if they can be called worship
services, have no invocation, liturgy, hymnbooks, robes, scripture lessons,
Lord's Prayer, or ecumenical Creeds. They call their open Communion
practice "our response" during which people are also invited to visit
friends, put money on the offering table, relax, drink coffee, meet others,
experience God, and have fun.

The pastor wears an open collar shirt and jeans and encourages decision
theology. They distribute materials published by Campus Crusade for Christ.
During the "service" information is projected on the screens and people
listen to rock music from the Director of Worship Arts, a former
self-ordained pastor of "Down to Earth Ministries" whom Pastor Paul Werner
confirmed.

"Epic Church" in Rochester, Michigan practices a worship style similar to
"Living Hope on the Bay."

In the summer of 2005 the previous English District President, Dr. David
Ritt, promoted and funded Epic Church which was started at Trinity in Utica,
a Michigan District Church. The church started with a man dressed in a
"Wookie" suit from "Star Wars" walking in front of Trinity Lutheran Church
with a sign that read, "Join the Rebellion." Ritt called it "cutting edge
missions."

Current District President David Stecholz says: "Pastor Kade is trying to do
an important thing."

Pastor Kade is well known for his sermon series on sex. Two small feet
point up with two large feet between them pointing down as the end of bed
are projected on the screen in front of the congregation.

Six of the sermon titles in Pastor Kade's series were:
"The Greatest Sex You'll Ever Have"
"The Bedroom: Battleground or Playground"
"Real Desperate Housewives"
"inappropriate content: What's the Big Deal?"
"Sex Ed: Teaching Children about Sex"
"Affair Proofing Your Marriage"

District President Stecholz responded to these titles saying, "He [Kade]
wants to bring about a thorough discussion on sexual intimacy from God's
point of view."

As more entertainment churches opened in LCMS districts the LCMS continues
to lose membership.

Since 2001, when Texas District President Gerald Kieschnick became
President, the LCMS has lost 175,000 members. The rate of loss is
increasing. In 2007 the LCMS lost 35,000 members.

In 2001, the newly-elected Kieschnick declared, "This is not your
grandfather's church." For many life long members, the LCMS has become an
unrecognizable, tarnished brand.

Many LCMS Lutherans no longer want to support missions.

There is new LCMS Church in Wayne Michigan, next to Detroit, called "The
Tabernacle of Praise." There is little information about this new Michigan
District Church.

__._,_.___

Rad, this stuff just makes my gut hurt, and my heart ache.

 

[RadMan]

You know guys that I didn't believe any of this 4 years ago and like many of you I just thought it was a buch of "chicken littles" running around saying the sky is falling. For some odd reason I would occasionally read some of the "propaganda", as some of these people call it and find nuggets of intelligent info. I had over the years read smatterings of problems within LCMS and like most people I just ignored it. I finally decided about 3 months ago not to get involved in the accusations from the conservative/confessional but..................Stying out of it doesn't seem to be the solution. Once you've seen the politics and heresies it's hard to hide your head again or ignore it.

As Filo and other people have pointed out, it is not all congregations that operate like this. The problem is that every day new congregations are being roped in because of either no-education and the church growth people being versed enough to counter any simple question. It's almost like having another denom within the church like the Mormons. They sound right but boy are they of the track and preaching heresies.

 

[porterross]

You will find many faithful pastors and congregations in the LCMS. They recognize that Word and Sacrament ministry is the heart of congregational life. They are not concerned with the latest trends, but with reaching the lost and spiritually feeding all who come through the door.

Rad's concern is with a National/Regional leadership committed away from congregational focus to centralized decision-making. It wouldn't surprise me to see a major shake up and realignment of Lutheran congregations - this is bigger than the problems plaguing the LCMS. If your congregation is solid, there is nothing to fear in the midst of all this; it may mean that the LCMS of 1930 will never be, but God's promise is that Church will remain, not the LCMS (or WELS, or ELS or ...).

Yes, but if there aren't any such faithful churches in the area this offers little comfort and it is undermining the church. This issue may not be that critical to those with a choice in their community, but for too many, that's not the case and for them (us) it's incredibly frustrating and make me wonder if some simply aren't meant to have the pure Law and Gospel available to them.

 

[Lupinus]

churches like that are Lutheran...how exactly?

Other then in name of course.

 

[filosofer]

Yes, but if there aren't any such faithful churches in the area this offers little comfort and it is undermining the church. This issue may not be that critical to those with a choice in their community, but for too many, that's not the case and for them (us) it's incredibly frustrating and make me wonder if some simply aren't meant to have the pure Law and Gospel available to them.

And that becomes the critical issue in the current era of mobility. For some of us who have moved 25+ times, we know the difficulty of finding a solid congregation.


All the more reason to encourage and train our pastors.

 

[joyfulthanks]

I want to apologize for my earlier post. Stories like this hit very close to home for me. I guess I consider myself sort of a refugee from an evangelical world which is filled with stories like this. I've lived through a lot of stuff like this happening little by little in congregations I've been part of, and I've been incredibly grieved for some time. I think I wasn't ready for an intrusion into my newfound little bubble of hapiness with the LCMS.

RadMan (and anyone else), please forgive me if I gave offense in any way.

 

[porterross]

And that becomes the critical issue in the current era of mobility. For some of us who have moved 25+ times, we know the difficulty of finding a solid congregation.


All the more reason to encourage and train our pastors.

Since you're now in altar and pulpit fellowship with the LCMS, does it extend to the ELCE? If so, you could add another loooong move to your list. They need some pastors, too.

 

[Studeclunker]

Yes, but if there aren't any such faithful churches in the area this offers little comfort and it is undermining the church. This issue may not be that critical to those with a choice in their community, but for too many, that's not the case and for them (us) it's incredibly frustrating and make me wonder if some simply aren't meant to have the pure Law and Gospel available to them.

Thus is the position I find myself in. I go to a congregation who think they're too wise to use the hymnal and proper liturgy. They constantly tinker with the confessions and often the 'traditional' service is less liturgical than the 'contemporary'! Being that this church is the only act in town, I have no other choice but to attend here. Then again, there is the WELS church...

And that becomes the critical issue in the current era of mobility. For some of us who have moved 25+ times, we know the difficulty of finding a solid congregation.


All the more reason to encourage and train our pastors.

Filo, the pastor in my current congregation has a doctorate. How am I supposed to train a fellow who's lightyears ahead of me in education? The frustrating thing is that the fellow may be more educated than I, and yet can't seem to get it through his head that acting like pentacostals is dishonest in a Lutheran Church.

Contrite, your post was just fine. Don't worry about offending anyone with the truth. Actually, I read it and said to myself, "Amen sister, I feel the same way." Being a refugee from the ELCA I know a little bit how you feel. Here I am though, finding myself in a new denomination that's going down the same road to disaster. Do I jump ship again, or stand and fight this time?

 

[porterross]

Filo, the pastor in my current congregation has a doctorate. How am I supposed to train a fellow who's lightyears ahead of me in education? The frustrating thing is that the fellow may be more educated than I, and yet can't seem to get it through his head that acting like pentacostals is dishonest in a Lutheran Church.

Contrite, your post was just fine. Don't worry about offending anyone with the truth. Actually, I read it and said to myself, "Amen sister, I feel the same way." Being a refugee from the ELCA I know a little bit how you feel. Here I am though, finding myself in a new denomination that's going down the same road to disaster. Do I jump ship again, or stand and fight this time?

It's tough, isn't it? I will soon be in the position of at least having more options available and as much as I don't want to exercise a non-Lutheran option, I may simply have little choice in the matter other than to go not attend any church at all and with a teenager who's already gone through too much of that, it's an option I find unacceptable. It's a horrible and depressing position to be in.

 

[QuiltAngel]

Contrite
Your post was great. Your post is one that people need to read and hear. Please post is again and again whenever you need to. Be the noisy gong and let people know of your experiences and why you chose the LCMS. Those who have wandered away from the traditional liturgies and Law/Gospel message need to hear from you and know that there are people who need this, not the new stuff.

You want hope. I have three children. All of whom have left home. All of whom have sought traditional/liturgical churches with a strong Law/Gospel message. Two attend worship where communion is offered each and every service. The third would like that, but it is not available in her area. She mostly attends at the church that is by the university she attends. They use LSB and follow the liturgy every Sunday. My oldest lives in a part of the Twin Cities that is rapidly growing and the church he attends is rapidly growing. Filled with young families each Sunday.

Most off, pray for the direction our church is going. Also, encourage your church to nominate a man for Synodical President who is confessional and encourage your delegates to the next convention to vote for him as well as confessional VP's.

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Thus is the position I find myself in. I go to a congregation who think they're too wise to use the hymnal and proper liturgy. They constantly tinker with the confessions and often the 'traditional' service is less liturgical than the 'contemporary'! Being that this church is the only act in town, I have no other choice but to attend here. Then again, there is the WELS church...


Filo, the pastor in my current congregation has a doctorate. How am I supposed to train a fellow who's lightyears ahead of me in education? The frustrating thing is that the fellow may be more educated than I, and yet can't seem to get it through his head that acting like pentacostals is dishonest in a Lutheran Church.

Contrite, your post was just fine. Don't worry about offending anyone with the truth. Actually, I read it and said to myself, "Amen sister, I feel the same way." Being a refugee from the ELCA I know a little bit how you feel. Here I am though, finding myself in a new denomination that's going down the same road to disaster. Do I jump ship again, or stand and fight this time?

I would stay within the LCMS, but I would also give the clergy and council a little piece of my mind. I would walk into a congregational meeting and state the case for a historic liturgy, and what is bad about contemporary worship. Worst case scenario: They reject the confessional stance and you become WELS or it starts a dialogue. Above all ask the pastors what would scripture, Augustine, Luther, and Walther say about their practices. That should make em think...and feel really bad.

 

[joyfulthanks]

Not that I consider division for the sake of division a good thing, but I've had this verse on my mind regarding this topic since yesterday:

1 Corinthians 11:18-22 (New American Standard Bible)

For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part I believe it. For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you.

Paul was grieved over the divisions, but at the same time, seemed to recognize them as necessary.

 

[RadMan]

I want to apologize for my earlier post. Stories like this hit very close to home for me. I guess I consider myself sort of a refugee from an evangelical world which is filled with stories like this. I've lived through a lot of stuff like this happening little by little in congregations I've been part of, and I've been incredibly grieved for some time. I think I wasn't ready for an intrusion into my newfound little bubble of hapiness with the LCMS.

RadMan (and anyone else), please forgive me if I gave offense in any way.

No apology is necessary. We like straight talkers here.

 

[RadMan]

"More Entertainment Mission Congregations Tarnish LCMS Brand"

The last Reclaim News release was titled: "District Presidents Tarnish LCMS
Brand with New Entertainment Churches." This release precipitated reader
responses that identified additional LCMS entertainment based mission
congregations.

The first purpose of worship is the forgiveness of sins. The following
mission congregations in the Atlantic and South Wisconsin Districts claim
their first purpose is relaxation and entertainment.

------------------------------------------------------
Atlantic District LCMS
http://www.gcnews.com/news/2008/1010/Community/001.html
http://www.resgc.org/pages/life

Lutheran's new 'Life'
In attempt to attract members, church in Old Westbury will take on a new
look and younger feel
BY JENNIFER BARRIOS
jennifer.barrios@newsday.com

(Picture: From left, David Benke, president of the Atlantic District; Gerald
Kieschnick, president of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod; and Rev. Bill
Harmon discuss new plans for church.)

The Rev. Bill Harmon of the Lutheran Church of the Resurrection in Garden
City admits he isn't much of a gardener. But Harmon and his church are
undertaking an ambitious "planting" - creating a new type of church in Old
Westbury.

Instead of robes and vestments, Harmon said, "We'll wear a jacket and polo
shirt. We'll probably have more of a band, music that is more in tune with
what people are hearing today.

"We want to tear down barriers that unchurched people feel keep them from
coming to church."

The effort is part of the Ablaze! movement by the national Lutheran
Church-Missouri Synod, the second-largest Lutheran denomination in North
America, with about 2.5 million members. The Garden City church is one of 10
congregations in the United States - and the only one in the state -
participating in the new program, which offers grants to create the
churches.

Harmon said that the new church, dubbed "The Life," has taken over a tiny
Lutheran congregation's building on Jericho Turnpike. When it is up and
running in October, Harmon said he hopes the laid-back experience will
attract those who previously were turned off by church or who have never
gone at all.

The Ablaze! project - which also includes more proselytizing by lay members
of the church - is part of the Lutheran movement's response to a world of
more immigrants and more diversity, said David Benke, president of the
Atlantic District of the Lutheran movement. It also is a response to the
flat or declining membership that this and other types of religious
organizations are facing.

"We want to reach out with the Gospel. But we have really walked right past
a whole bunch of people in the past, especially in the New York metro area,
Benke said. "As our older membership matures, moves out and moves on, we
have to redevelop a lot of the parishes that we've been in for a long time."

The movement's national president, the Rev. Gerald Kieschnick, said the
Lutheran church on Long Island and across the country will look very
different in the next few decades.

"Our church is going to be more multicultural in the future," Kieschnick
said. "There are more and more congregations that will see their Sunday
morning and their other activities during the week populated by people who
are not just old white guys."

Newsday (Long Island, NY) Friday, March 7, 2008 edition.

----------------------------------------------------------

South Wisconsin District LCMS
http://www.faithalivelc.org/templates/System/default.asp?id=40318

Greetings! Welcome to the Faith Alive Lutheran Church website.

Fun for the Whole Family!

Faith Alive Monthly Movie!

Faith Alive is a casual church that meets every Sunday at the Ridge Theatre
in New Berlin. We use music & video clips to help connect the lessons of
the Bible to today's life.

Give us an hour of your time and we'll give you two! On the last Sunday of
the month we'll give the visitors of Faith Alive the chance to see a new
movie following the service. We call it the FAMM (Faith Alive Monthly
Movie). Check out our announcements
<http://www.faithalivelc.org/templates/System/details.asp?id=40318&PID=49507
0> to see the dates and the movies that are playing.


__._,_.___

 

[DaRev]

I find this part quite interesting...

The Ablaze! project - which also includes more proselytizing by lay members
of the church - is part of the Lutheran movement's response to a world of
more immigrants and more diversity, said David Benke, president of the
Atlantic District of the Lutheran movement. It also is a response to the
flat or declining membership that this and other types of religious
organizations are facing.

I'd be interested in just how much the Synod membership has grown since Ablaze was initiated. Seems to me that the synod membership has declined steadily in the past 6-7 years.

Hmmmmm......