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Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by One Of The Elect, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. We are called to live sinless lives?

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    50.0%
  2. I will strive toward a sinless life by my faith in Christ.

    2 vote(s)
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  1. One Of The Elect

    One Of The Elect Member

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    CAN WE LIVE SINLESS LIVES? WELL WHAT DOES THE HOLY APOSTLE JOHN TELL US?
    1 John 3:1-10
    See what love the Father has given us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know Him. Beloved, we are God's children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And every one who thus hopes in Him purifies himself as he is pure.
    Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins; no one who has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. He who does right is righteous, as he is righteous. He who commits sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God commits sin; for God's nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God. By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and the children of the devil: whoever does not do right is not of God, nor he who does not love his brother.​
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
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  2. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    All through Scripture, the lives of the ekklesia are shown ,
    clearly God's Word, God's Way, "perfectly" as He Breathed His Word, and as He Is Always Right (about all things)...


    IN life, anywhere on earth ? the lives of the ekklesia are rarely seen. Thus, few ever know the truth.
     
  3. One Of The Elect

    One Of The Elect Member

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    Point?
     
  4. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    It's very much like how Christ instructs us "Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect."

    And just like that, we need to be reading the parts before that lead into these verses, to get the real sense of meaning well. In Matthew chapter 5, that's really to start from the beginning of the Sermon on the Mount, but in 1 John chapter 3, it's really to start in the first chapter, and there you see the fact that we all sin.

    So, how to understand it? We sin -- stumble, fall down.

    Then...

    A key, crucial moment comes, and often more than once....

    Where we feel something pulling us, guilt, to repent.

    And then we must, as John wrote in chapter 1 do so! --

    5This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from allb sin.

    8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

    When we are walking in the light, here, it's evident we have stumbled even -- we are visibly not upright. We have to "confess our sins"!

    When we do, we are then returning back onto the path, the "way", the "narrow road".

    In 1 John chapter 3, the meaning is that continuing sin without confessing/repenting, without turning away from it, over time, shows a person isn't on the path....

    So, believers on the path will sin (stumble, fall down, even depart sometimes), and then must confess, repent, and then they are forgiven, and then they are changed (at least some), and back on the path.

    We don't remain in our sins, but abandon them, by confessing, and in our hearts (sincerely, not just words without sincerity), and to God, even if we are given aid by a person as we do so.

    But notice also the profound aid that "abiding" in Christ gives us! This goes back to the powerful chapters in the Gospel of John about abiding, and remaining in Him.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  5. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    I think what he is saying is that the elect are rarely recognized by the world. ekkelsia being the called ones by God. If they are not recognized neither is the truth. But I shouldn't answer for him LOL !
     
  6. One Of The Elect

    One Of The Elect Member

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    Scripture does not lie. All of what St. John's said is true. And we shall be perfect.
     
  7. Serving Zion

    Serving Zion Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

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    It is a calling to live up to: the discipline of Christ (Hebrews 12). We are put to the test through the baptism of Christ (Matthew 3:11, Jeremiah 9:7, Isaiah 6:13), refined to overcome the sin that had become so ingrained in us at the time of our conversion (some people have more adjustments to make than others, depending upon how well love and grace has already been formed in their character compared to judgement - see Mark 10:41-45, Romans 7:9-10, Matthew 16:6, Galatians 5:9, John 1:11).

    The scriptures that talk about God disciplining His children because He loves them, it is so that we always keep growing further into that image that He envisaged for us (Galatians 4:19). The godless ones don't know it, that they are driven by their carnal passions. They bring judgement against His glorious ones who are truly innocent, because they cannot stand in the presence of His light (1 John 3:15). They are spiritually dead (1 John 3:9-10), motivated not by love but by their carnal passions (pride, jealousy, wrath, hate), having no fear of the prospect of God's judgement being turned upon themselves. (2 Timothy 2:15-18).

    In this way, every unrighteousness that we have not been cleansed of (1 John 1:9) gives a valid opportunity for the devil to accuse us truthfully against our conscience (Ephesians 4:27). It is a narrow, difficult path that leads to life, only a few ever find it - but the seed that fell on good ground produced a crop of thirty, sixty, a hundred more.
     
  8. One Of The Elect

    One Of The Elect Member

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    I agree with all scripture. And we who abide in Christ are righteous as He is righteous. People should consider all of these scriptural verses to support the call to perfection.

    You say "depending how well love and grace has been formed in your character." I feel some people should consider these very words you conveyed, concerning the Mother of our Lord. Who the fullness of grace was given. She abided in the Lord from the moment of her yes. People need to stop calling her a sinner and reject the John Calvin doctrine of the "Sins of Mary" which is unfounded. She was perfected the moment the Holy Spirit came upon her and she was filled with the fullness of Wisdom.
     
  9. Serving Zion

    Serving Zion Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

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    I think that you might be describing an augmentation of a cultural resistance to the principles of The Catholic Church that began at The Reformation, and even with Tyndale.

    When an unschooled reader of the scripture finds the power of God that they have over a backslidden establishment, yet not having a personal relationship with Christ that ensures we remain accountable to the highest authority, then such one has become a slave to sin despite having a useful measure of righteousness and power in The Kingdom of God. He is a powerful agent of destruction, because he has some righteousness but is not sanctified - he is of an inferior spirit.

    Now we see that someone who has achieved recognition as a teacher of doctrine (you say that Calvin has done it, I do not know whether this is true) has manifested blasphemy against Mother Mary - a holy one (consider 2 Peter 2:9-12). I would suggest that it probably is an over-extended rebuttal to an original blasphemy: "Mother of God" - consider Isaiah 66:1-2 and Luke 1:48. Mary was a servant of God.

    Of course, the whole of Christendom's error today has been a snowball of apostasy since the first martyrs 2,000 years ago, culminating to a day where we have a historic freedom of expression since the fall and a historic rate of atheism/anti-Christian spirit; yet, who is a Christian these days that really is perfect enough that they can endure and withstand all charges brought against them and can speak without error in God's sight? It is only the one who yields to The Holy Spirit when He speaks and does not try to get an upper-hand over Him (Matthew 23:8-10). That is the one who is perfected and who is of the unity of the saints (being sanctified - just as you are saying that Mary was). Hebrews 10:14 says this too, and some of the mechanism of it is explained in Hebrews 10:26-31.
     
  10. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    I believe so too. Let's read this wonderful chapter in the NIV to know it better! (or even reread it in 3 or 4 translations)

    1 See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears,a we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3 All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.

    4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

    7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

    More on Love and Hatred

    11For this is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. 12Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous. 13Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters,b if the world hates you. 14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 15Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
    16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. 17If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? 18Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

    19This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.23And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
     
  11. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Notice how helpful the NIV translation was!

    Notice how in verse 2, verse 3....and continuing, you can see the present tense for us purifying ourselves, over time.

    An ongoing progression.

    And see the invaluable lessons in verses 23 and 24. While already we have learned in chapter 1 we could stumble, and then must confess and return to the path, progressing, in these two final verses of chapter 3 we see the thing we can already be doing even early in our journey is as in verse 24 -- to actively keep His commandments, remaining in Him, bearing fruit, as in the Gospel of John chapter 15.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  12. One Of The Elect

    One Of The Elect Member

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    I am non denominational. I do not believe the Judaeo Christian faith is a denomination. I like to learn about the history of it . I believe there are people of God in denominations . Some are misinformed, some are well informed. Truth is truth. I seek it out. I do not agree with some RCC doctrine or Orthodox and I disagree with a lot of Protestant beliefs. None of their errors take away from scripture. I hear where everyone is coming from and then search out answers in scripture. I test spirits according to 1John4 especially concerning apparitions and what people say concerning messages. God does not render us impotent in these matters.

    I hold not to the doctrine of Papal Infallibility, I hold not to the Protestant stand concerning Mary. I do not like the Vatican's dishonesty and fallible Popes. It is not difficult to find the truth between the lines hidden behind mans lies. God is good and His Word Infallible. I believe He reaches into denominations and pulls out people who are honestly seeking Him. The love for truth in our hearts is verified by our actions when truth is heard. The Lords people hear it and recognize Him. If I am part of a denomination it is simply the Body of Christ and I am simply Christian.
     
  13. Serving Zion

    Serving Zion Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

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    Me too! This is the booklet that I share with people, I print it myself:

    www.adonai-reigns.life/the-gospel
     
  14. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Not on this earth. But we can choose to do what is right
    even with our flawed vision of what that is.
     
  15. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    It's not that any of us have to already be unable to sin, flawless, or else Peter would still be condemned, and lost forever!

    11 When Cephas (Peter) came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray. (Galatians ch 2)


    See? Peter doing sin after being a believer -- remember Peter even prayed successfully to raise a dead person, so he had real faith! -- but later in Acts we see Peter has turned from the sin of rejecting the gentiles who were not circumcised, and left it behind. He repented.

    Faith, walking ->.... stumbling (sin), repentance...walking ->

    In 1 John chapter 3 as you quoted, translations helps us see we are not already fully what we will be.

    The Now isn't yet already the Then, the To-Come --

    2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3 All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.

    "Purify" is happening now, we are to be doing it, daily. The Lord's prayer is one of the ways we can daily make progress. And keep walking on that "narrow road".

    But in a key way you do have it right -- right here and now we are called to walk, progress, do, this -- to purify our selves towards sinlessness. Some will surely be progressing, and they are good examples to us.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  16. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    I agree what the Evangelist wrote is true.

    Then please explain why your church has a confessional.
     
  17. One Of The Elect

    One Of The Elect Member

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    I will never argue against scripture, just false interpretation. You are right, some are at various degrees and levels in their salvation. I trust in the words of the Beloved of Christ. John is right, and what he speaks, speaks to my heart as do the scriptures you quoted speak to you as to perhaps where you are in your journey. I abide in Christ, I will not act as if I do not. It is true that you abide based on the grace given to you. And at the end of it all it is in abiding that you enter into the joy of your Father.

    I look not left or right. I question no more, I fight the good fight. I sing His song. I have to, it is purposed in me to. It has not been easy, it will never be easy. For me it is simple, we all must face our final curtain in some way, shape or form. Fear is the only obstacle which keeps us from moving forward in God. Perfect love drives out fear. I have no doubt about God and who His Son is, I know where I was called from, I know where I came from, I know where I am and where I am going. I know not what I will be, but I know when He returns I shall be like Him. The only thing I know for sure now, is that I am loved.

    I placed this post for the Saints of God on earth and in heaven and for Mary Mother of God whose virtue has been attacked by many. Full of Grace means something very profound and special. Favor is not to be scoffed at. And God's will should not be questioned. She abides in Christ from the moment of Her yes. And becoming full of grace, could not sin.

    And in a key way- which is not my key but St. John's point in Christ, it is time to abide, THE LAST HOUR!
    Also, I am not saying I do not need all the apostles teaching's it is their teachings and Mary's hand that has reared and brought the male child, Christ- forth in my soul. Rev12 is happening to believers all over the world.
     
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