This atheist group is waging a nationwide war on Christmas –
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Abram's Awakening
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As near as I can tell, none of the witnesses ever recanted. From the linked entry, "Yet despite the estrangement of the Whitmer family, there is little evidence that any of the Eight Witnesses denied his testimony to the authenticity of Book of Mormon or the golden plates." Even more interesting is the idea of an "unbiased observer" -- since some of these men were kicked out of the Mormon Church but never recanted their claims about the Book of Mormon, that would appear to add credence to their claims -- they no longer had a reason to maintain their story if they were lying about it.
A document I've seen was the diary written by James Henry Moyle, a Mormon young man in 1885, who stopped in Missouri to speak with David Whitmer (one of the three witnesses who had the Golden Plates shown to him by an angel) on his way back to Utah after completing Law School at the University of Michigan. He was the only one of the three witnesses who did not die as a member of the Mormon church, was known in his town in Missouri, yet Whitmer was firm with his witness -- that it did occur.
I don't think you can brush those witnesses off as easily as you want to. Not saying you should believe, just that you are being inconsistent in the standards you are judging each by.
So far as I know, only Christ walked on water (and Peter with Christ's assistance), so not sure why Mormons (who claim Christ as their god) should walk on water. I could likely say the same about feeding thousands. I do know there are various writings of Joseph Smith healing people, and not all were written by Mormons. There is a documented claim of a later president of the Mormon church, Lorenzo Snow, raising a person from the dead (see above citation). Mormons still claim they heal people, to this day; with many personal accounts recorded by Mormons. There is a story documented by the Mormons of Brigham Young, during a speech about who should lead the church after Smith died, took on the look and voice of Joseph Smith -- something seen by hundreds with several eye witness accounts surviving.
Again, if you are going to be consistent, you need to believe in Joseph Smith and his miracles -- especially since you have far more actual eye witness statements, written at the time and not decades later, and not just authors who say thousands witnessed it.
Again, I'm not trying to promote Mormonism, just pointing out that you are being inconsistent in what you claim is "evidence." The only difference with Mormonism is that you know far more about it, since most of this only happened 150 or so years ago.
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I find it interesting how Atheist's try to avoid their irrational worldview and distract from their obvious contradictions.
However, I'll play along. Does anyone know how many archeological finds there have been in North America to prove the Book of Mormon as being true? I'll answer that. It's zero.
Does anyone know that one of the books that Joe Smith supposedly translated was recently found? It turned out to be the Egyptian book of the dead. Joe Smith didn't even get one word correctly translated.
So, what other means of critical thought might we use to determine if a book is telling the truth?
Either way you slice it, trying to compare Joe Smith and his followers to Jesus followers is quite silly.
The desperation of Atheist's on this forum is interesting.
However, I'll play along. Does anyone know how many archeological finds there have been in North America to prove the Book of Mormon as being true? I'll answer that. It's zero.
Does anyone know that one of the books that Joe Smith supposedly translated was recently found? It turned out to be the Egyptian book of the dead. Joe Smith didn't even get one word correctly translated.
So, what other means of critical thought might we use to determine if a book is telling the truth?
Either way you slice it, trying to compare Joe Smith and his followers to Jesus followers is quite silly.
The desperation of Atheist's on this forum is interesting.
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Abram's Awakening
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Joseph Smith was high on rye bread. He was hallucinating with images that appeared to be Christ and the visitation of angels. Must of been some killer acid, right? The mormon religion is utterly false-even disgusting. The book of Mormon is more renouned and pushed to approach and accept than the Living Word of God!
These things fire me up!
Cursed be any who adds or takes away from the Lord and His Words...
Cursed be any who stands against them!
And fyi. Any religion that was established or growing from the days of the Enlightenment(the age of reason; roughly 1700's) until 2001 is guaranteed to be false given the fact that all His Light was being withheld...
Mormons may be nice people, but the follow a doctrine of demons...
These things fire me up!
Cursed be any who adds or takes away from the Lord and His Words...
Cursed be any who stands against them!
And fyi. Any religion that was established or growing from the days of the Enlightenment(the age of reason; roughly 1700's) until 2001 is guaranteed to be false given the fact that all His Light was being withheld...
Mormons may be nice people, but the follow a doctrine of demons...
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Let me first say, I'd be careful of using the "cursed by any who adds...", since the Book of Revelations was not the book written last; nor does it appear to be the only warning in the Bible. It seems rather clear each warning was talking of that specific book of the Bible, and not the book as a whole -- which wasn't even really a thought when John (or whoever, since the authorship is debated by Biblical scholars) penned Revelations; though it may be a reason why the Early Church fathers decided to put the Book of Revelations last.
Again, the difference between Mormonism and the Bible is that one happened 2,000 years ago and the other 150 years ago. For example, there are any number of "Gospels" that were written, a few of which that have survived to the current day (despite early Christian attempts to destroy them all) that are quite different, or outright contradict, the current Gospels in the Bible. You claim they don't matter because those Early Church Fathers claimed they were wrong and they don't agree with what is in the Bible.
You have some of the same issues as Mormons when it comes to archaeology. There is still no reliable evidence of Israelites in Egypt; while some references that appear to be to Biblical figures have been found, they occur over a time frame that make it impossible to reconcile to the timeline of the Bible. There are creatures, particularly dragons and unicorns, mentioned in the Bible and no proof.
Just like the Mormon's, you pass off the parts that don't agree with your beliefs or try to explain them away while clinging to what you claim are "facts" that "prove" what you are choosing to believe.
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My statement in no way implied that. This is, once again, you attempting to assign me a position I do not hold.
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