#ThingsOnlyChristianWomenHear

[Paidiske]

I think it's important for us to share these stories, though. As long as we don't talk about them, a lot of people don't realise the extent of the problem, or think it's just isolated incidents that happen here and there, instead of seeing how it's just part of the fabric of the church as many of us encounter it.

Recognising the problem is the first step in creating change.

 

[Dave-W]

Wow... #38. "You know too much about the Bible. You will be too intimidating for a guy to marry. How will they lead you?"

I think I actually heard someone say that IRL, back when I was single.
It made no sense to me then and even less now.

 

[Dave-W]

I think it's important for us to share these stories, though. As long as we don't talk about them, a lot of people don't realise the extent of the problem, or think it's just isolated incidents that happen here and there, instead of seeing how it's just part of the fabric of the church as many of us encounter it.

I know you may be tired of hearing this, but IMO it has been in the inner structure of Christianity since the 2nd century when the Greeks and Romans (well known patriarchists) took over leadership in the church from the Jews.

 

[Dave-W]

Recognising the problem is the first step in creating change.

Absolutely.

 

[Paidiske]

Sorry, Dave, but I'm not buying it. The Judaism of the era was also patriarchal, even if it had a slightly different cultural flavour to it. This was a problem built into Christianity from its inception (hello, St. Paul!), and we have been working it out ever since.

 

[Dave-W]

Sorry, Dave, but I'm not buying it. The Judaism of the era was also patriarchal, even if it had a slightly different cultural flavour to it. This was a problem built into Christianity from its inception (hello, St. Paul!), and we have been working it out ever since.

And I would counter that looking at 2nd temple Judaism from the Greko/Roman lens can make it look that way. But go back and read the actual Ketubot - the marriage contracts of the time. You may come away with a different idea.

I am not pretending that it was as even and equal as what is longed for today. No place on earth was like that. But it was MILES ahead of anything else anywhere around.

 

[Paidiske]

It may well have been "miles ahead," but that doesn't mean it would be, by today's understanding of the value and dignity of women, good enough.

So given that it fell short, I still argue that gender-based inequality was part of Christianity from its beginning, and as much a Jewish as a Pagan problem; not something that was introduced with gentile corruption at all.

 

[Dave-W]

t, I still argue that gender-based inequality was part of Christianity from its beginning, and as much a Jewish as a Pagan problem; not something that was introduced with gentile corruption at all.

And I posit that the "pagan gentile corruption" certainly took it in the wrong direction.

 

[Paidiske]

I'll grant you that there was some unhelpful baggage which came in with, say, Greek philosophy and the like.

But you can't pin gender inequality on the gentiles, Dave. And it's pointless to try. The thing now is to try to unravel that fabric of inequality and make something better.

 

[Greg J.]

With 3,750,000,000 women on earth, the only thing that can be said to be true about all of them is that they are women, although I understand that is now recognized to not be the case.

 

[paul becke]

Thought others might be interested in this, and sharing their experiences too.

I think my favourite from the article has to be:

“You speak five languages and have a doctoral degree? Children's ministry is your calling!”

But this one works for this forum:

“You’re egalitarian? … Umm, are you still a Christian?”

A few of months ago, I wrote a post to an online Catholic journal in a thread in which the foot-washing ritual Jesus engaged in, as a teaching aid was being discussed. Surreally, but nevertheless predictably, some male parishioners were discussing who would and who would not be appropriate candidates - principally, I believe, because Pope Francis had chosen, against tradition, to wash the feet of some women, as well as those of some male 'foot-washees'.

I couldn't believe male posters were complaining and the half-baked reasons they dredged up from somewhere - probably one of the more unenlightened but hide-bound traditions of men. So, I suggested that if anyone wanted to cry themselves to sleep at night (laughing), they should reflect on their petty bickering and then on how St Mary Magdalene, couldn't have cared tuppence whether she played a part in a play-acting cameo, already definitively performed 2000 years ago by Jesus, and its purpose definitively achieved then and in scripture, when she had actually washed Jesus' feet with her tears, wiped them with her hair and anointed them with perfume. She would have turned herself inside out, if she could have. Now, that was a level of loving service that evidently went right over their heads. Women are one of kind in the matter of love, so I'm not suggesting wearing their heart on their sleeve in that way would have been an appropriate way for those men to carry on, even if they had been more concerned with love, than bickering about who was the most humble ! But the juxtaposition of those two scenarios high-lighted the madness of the 'I'm in charge' jobsworth types with their blindness to real spirituality in human form that Mary Magdalene personified in such a sublime way.

 

[paul becke]

I had to stop reading it - it just made me so exasperated and angry. The whole notion within Christianity that women are second class just upsets and repels me.

Maybe this will make you see things differently concering Christianity's role in the emancipation of women from the status of mere chattels :

Christianity: The Best Thing That Ever Happened to Women

 

[paul becke]

Wow... #38. "You know too much about the Bible. You will be too intimidating for a guy to marry. How will they lead you?"
Sometimes, this is how I feel in small groups when I'm around other teenagers, and sometimes, it's because I know what order the books of the Bible are in.
(Continues reading)
Some of these are just mean! 42 stands out.
(Continues reading)
46. Thanks a lot Eve...

Women have forgotten more about God than we know. Paul's advice was no different from 'honouring the emperor (Nero?)'. Such social changes have to come gradually. But it is a matter of common observation that women are far more spiritual, more like the angels - and also, like them, whether for better or worse.

 

[Paidiske]

They'd come a lot quicker if more people could at least agree that they're necessary.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Wow... #38. "You know too much about the Bible. You will be too intimidating for a guy to marry. How will they lead you?"

I think I actually heard someone say that IRL, back when I was single.
It made no sense to me then and even less now.

I've recently discovered a female Youtuber who does videos on various theological topics, as well as more personal vlog style as well. Anyway, I found her to be very attractive, and one of the reasons is that she is very intelligent and knowledgeable on scripture and theology. At least for me, I don't find it intimidating at all, but apparently attractive.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The "Billy Graham" rule (not familiar with VP Pence rule) came about after an incident where Rev Graham was in a high rise hotel and took an elevator to the lobby alone. A woman got on the elevator and proceeded to undress herself and when it opened in the lobby, she claimed Graham had attempted to rape her. That happened back in the 1960s.

The over-reactions to this has been horrible. Pastors PROUD of leaving female congregants with broken down cars miles out in the country and them not even stopping to help or offer to call someone. And their husbands AGREEING to that. I would punch him out even if he was clergy.

After all - we must avoid the APPEARANCE of evil. But our Lord did a LOT of stuff that looked pretty bad to a lot of people.

How did Jesus avoid the appearance of evil with the woman at the well?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

And I posit that the "pagan gentile corruption" certainly took it in the wrong direction.

ROFL

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I've recently discovered a female Youtuber who does videos on various theological topics, as well as more personal vlog style as well. Anyway, I found her to be very attractive, and one of the reasons is that she is very intelligent and knowledgeable on scripture and theology. At least for me, I don't find it intimidating at all, but apparently attractive.

who is she?

 

[Dave-W]

How did Jesus avoid the appearance of evil with the woman at the well?

He didn't.

At least not in the sense most people take that phrase.

 

[mkgal1]

He didn't.

At least not in the sense most people take that phrase.

Right. We can't manage the perceptions of others. Shouldn't we do/not do things based on their own merit? I'm not of the belief that it's "moral" for a man to leave a woman alone and stranded (for appearance sake). That appears callous and legalistic to me.