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Things have changed over the years

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by CherubRam, Apr 30, 2018.

  1. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    The mark of the cross is made on the forehead with ash during lent.


    Sign of the cross

    The Byzantine sign of the cross made with the right hand.


    The Byzantine sign of the cross is made with thumb and the first two fingers of the right hand joined at the tips. The third and fourth fingers are closed on the palm.


    The Byzantine way of making the sign of the cross pre-dates the Latin style used by the Roman Catholics.


    The sign of the Trinity and Cross are both in the right hand.


    The Hebrew word for sin is "chet," which literally means "missing the mark.”


    The sign of being forgiven.

    During the ancient days of Israel, if a person was forgiven in a court, the person would receive a single ash mark on their forehead for everyone to see; that was done in remembrance of Moses’s snake on a pole.



    The Catholic mark is a cross on the fore head made with a trinity sign with the right hand. By the way, the word “cross’ is not biblical; it was added to scriptures.

    The Seal of God is the law and the Sabbath Day.



    Numbers 21:8 - 9

    The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.


    Deuteronomy 21:23

    you must not leave the body hanging on the pole overnight. Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a pole is under God’s curse. You must not desecrate the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance.


    1 Corinthians 1:23. NIV

    23 but we preach Christ (crucified / staked out) a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,


    Galatians 3:13

    Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”


    Acts 5:30

    The God of our fathers raised up Yahshua, whom you killed and hanged on a tree.


    Acts 10:39

    And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they killed and hanged on a tree:
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2018
  2. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    The Mark


    Clarke's Notes on the Bible
    And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark - "If any," observes Bishop Newton, "dissent from the stated and authorized forms; they are condemned and excommunicated as heretics; and in consequence of that they are no longer suffered to buy or sell; they are interdicted from traffic and commerce, and all the benefits of civil society. So Roger Hoveden relates of William the Conqueror, that he was so dutiful to the pope that he would not permit any one in his power to buy or sell any thing whom he found disobedient to the apostolic see. So the canon of the council of Lateran, under Pope Alexander III., made against the Waldenses and Albigenses, enjoins, upon pain of anathema, that no man presume to entertain or cherish them in his house or land, or exercise traffic with them.

    https://www.studylight.org/bible/ubv/revelation/13-17.htmland

    it was ordered by a bull of Pope Martin the Fifth, that no contract should be made with such, and that they should not follow any business and merchandise: save he that had the mark; took the oath to be true to the pope, or made a public profession of the Popish religion


    Revelation 13:17 Commentaries: and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.


    Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather
    honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ. (Canon 29 [A.D. 360]). (The Church Council of Laodicea circa 364 CE)



    "The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third (fourth) Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day." The Catholic Encyclopedia Topic: Ten Commandments, 2nd paragraph

    "The Pope has the power to change times, to abrogate (abolish) laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ." "The Pope has the authority and often exercised it, to dispense with the command of Christ." -Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap. (The Pope can modify divine law.) Ferraris' Ecclesiastical Dictionary
     
  3. pat34lee

    pat34lee Messianic

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    And then you have silt and mud to slog through.
    The ground was hard enough for chariots to pass
    until Yahweh let the waters return and then the
    mud bogged them down until the waters drowned
    them.
     
  4. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Hades is Grave

    Comparing the Septuagint to the Masoretic, in the Old Testament. The word Hades in the Septuagint is the grave in the Masoretic text. So therefore the correct translation into English would be "grave."
     
  5. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    Abode of the spirits
     
  6. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    You did not say enough for a comment.

    In regards to:
    “God never abandoned his covenant with Israel"
    Pope Francis


    Three Shepherds And The Revoked Covenant


    Zechariah 11:7-11. Three Shepherds And The Revoked Covenant.


    Zechariah 11
    7 So I pastured the flock marked for slaughter, particularly the oppressed of the flock. Then I took two staffs and called one Favor and the other Union, and I pastured the flock.
    8 In one month I got rid of the three shepherds.
    The flock detested me, and I grew weary of them 9 and said, "I will not be your shepherd. Let the dying die, and the perishing perish. Let those who are left eat one another's flesh."
    10 Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations.
    11 It was revoked on that day, and so the afflicted of the flock who were watching me knew it was the word [Yahshua] of [the Lord / Yahwah.]

    The Sadducees were members of a Jewish sect founded in the second century BC, possibly as a political party. They ceased to exist sometime after the first century AD.

    Thus the Three Shepherds: Sanhedrin, Sadducees, and Pharisees.
     
  7. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Currently we are under the New Covenant. That includes Israel.
     
  8. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 17:7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you.

    Genesis 17:8 The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”

    Genesis 17:13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant.

    Genesis 17:19 Then God said, “Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.
     
  9. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Forever is forever, unless the Covenant is revoked.
     
  10. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    Hades is not the grave of the spirits. Spirits return to God at the time of death.

    Ecc. 12:7 says, “Our bodies will return to the dust of the earth, and the breath of life will go back to God, who gave it to us.”

    Death is the opposite of life. There is no life in death.

    Job 14:12 “Man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their sleep. … 21 His sons come to honor, and he does not know it; they are brought low, and he does not perceive it”
    Ecc 9:6 “Nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun”

    How important is the resurrection? It is very important, because it is when life is returned to the body.

    John 5:28 “All who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth”
    Acts 2:29 “David … is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. … For David did not ascend into the heavens”
    Job 17:13 “If I wait, the grave is mine house”
    1 thess 4:16 “The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout. …17 And the dead in Christ will rise. … And thus we shall always be with the Lord”.
    Cor 15:51 “We shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye … 52 and the dead will be raised incorruptible. … 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality”.
     
  11. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    forever is forever, meaning the covenant will never be revoked for any reason.
     
  12. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    In order for there to be a New Covenant, the Old Covenant would have to be revoked.


    Zechariah 11
    10 Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations. 11 It was revoked on that day, and so the oppressed of the flock who were watching me knew it was the word of the Lord. (Yahshua)

    12 I told them, “If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it.” So they paid me thirty pieces of silver.

    13 And the Lord said to me, “Throw it to the potter”—the handsome price at which they valued me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them to the potter at the house of the Lord.

    14 Then I broke my second staff called Union, breaking the family bond between Judah and Israel.




    Matthew 26:15
    and asked, “What are you willing to give me if I deliver him over to you?” So they counted out for him thirty pieces of silver.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
    Matthew 27:3
    When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
    Matthew 27:9
    Then what was spoken by (Jeremiah?) the prophet was fulfilled: “They took the thirty pieces of silver, the price set on him by the people of Israel,
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations





    Luke 22:20
    In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
    1 Corinthians 11:25
    In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
    2 Corinthians 2:12
    [ Ministers of the New Covenant ] Now when I went to Troas to preach the gospel of Christ and found that the Lord had opened a door for me,
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
    2 Corinthians 3:6
    He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
    2 Corinthians 3:7
    [ The Greater Glory of the New Covenant ] Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was,
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
    Hebrews 8:1
    [ The High Priest of a New Covenant ] Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
    Hebrews 8:6
    But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
    Hebrews 8:8
    But God found fault with the people and said: “The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
    Hebrews 9:15
    For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
    Hebrews 12:24
    to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

     
  13. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    Romans 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
     
  14. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    The verse you are quoting has nothing to do with a covenant.

    This is the irrevocable covenant. It is a separate covenant from the covenant of circumcision.

    Genesis 17 NIV

    17 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said, “I am God Almighty"; walk before me faithfully and be blameless. 2 Then I will make my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers.”

    3 Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4 “As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5 No longer will you be called Abram"; your name will be Abraham," for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”

    "The Covenant of Circumcision" is with Abraham and the nations, because Abraham was to be the father of many nations.

    Romans 9:8
    In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
     
  15. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    Ah CR, my friend. I don't know what to say. This is so mixed up that I am lost how best to deal with it. There are simply far too many points to make. I suppose if I had to make just one point it would be this: God specifically took Abraham and set him apart from the Nations.

    CR, I feel like the harder I try to get you to see scripture, the further out you spin. We have Yeshua and Torah in common, which is saying a whole awful lot. But beyond that I'm afraid we are simply destined to agree to disagree agreeably. I pretty much stand for convention. I belong to a major Christian church, and my Messianic Jewish theology falls in line with UMJC, one of the two major denominations. You on the other hand prefer to blaze your own trail.

    Be well.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
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