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There is no predestination unto salvation in the Bible

Discussion in 'Covenant Theology' started by George Antonios, Sep 19, 2020.

  1. George Antonios

    George Antonios Member

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    Nice sleight of hand there.

    Yet Paul's most famous passage about our resurrection says:

    1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
    [...]
    1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to EVERY seed his OWN body.
     
  2. George Antonios

    George Antonios Member

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    Partial truth. God is both out of and in time, as evidenced by scores of verses.
     
  3. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Active Member

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    Iwill give you more than one Rom 8:29-30

    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    Eph 1:4-5

    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
     
  4. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    Anyone who impregnates a woman without her freewill is called a rapist, which doesn't sound like the God of the bible, but then I'm not a Calvinist.
     
  5. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    God foreknew those who would respond to his Spirit, and because of that response, He predestined, called, justified and glorified......
    Your verse gives the answer..............only those who are already in Him get adopted as sons.
     
  6. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    Paul confirms this.
    Romans1v18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
    No man can accept or suppress the truth, unless it has already been given.

    19because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

    There we go, the truth was already given to all by God himself.

    20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen,

    So despite being invisible every man knows the reality of our creator.

    being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead,

    Not just seeing the truth, but fully understanding it, and then rejecting it!

    so that they are without excuse,

    At the judgement, God will tell them it is their own responsibility for rejecting God. If God made the choice on our behalf, then unbelievers would have an extremely powerful excuse.

    21because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Professing to be wise, they became fools,
    Choices choises choises, freewill choices with no indication that God did it for them.

    Everything in this passage is about the choice each man makes when convicted by the Holy Spirit.
    As can be seen in the gospels, one the thieves on the cross chose wisely, the other chose foolishly. But they both can be seen making that choice.

    The Calvinist nonsense, that God predestines man's choice, is utterly destroyed by this whole passage.
     
  7. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Active Member

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    You twist the truth, not good!
     
  8. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    No, it is Calvinists who twist the truth and put millions of people into bondage.
    Go back and read my postNo26, and show from Romans1v18 onwards, how God controls man's decision making.
     
  9. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Active Member

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    Predestination to Salvation is clear as day in scripture. Eph1:5 it [predestination] is grounded in Eternal Election in Christ Eph 1:4 which occurred before the foundation of the world, and thats when the Elect were foreknown in Christ.
     
  10. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    From end to end, the whole of the bible narrative, and particularly Romans1 totally trashes that twisted nonsense.
     
  11. MMXX

    MMXX I Got Vaccinated

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    My personal theory, which I haven worked out much yet, is that those whom God predestined, are the major people in the Bible. Noah, Abraham, King David, the Judges, the Prophets and the Apostles. It seems pretty clear that they were specifically selected for their roles ahead of time.
     
  12. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    On account of the fact that they would freely choose to accept the Lord as their salvation, He predestined their role in life.
    Nothing in scripture says that God predestined them to accept him. Don't conflate the two issues together.
     
  13. MMXX

    MMXX I Got Vaccinated

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    I'm saying the role they were given is what predestination is about, rather than salvation. And that predestination pertains to them rather than to everyone. Obviously Jesus was predestined to be crucified. But his prayer at Gethsemane seemed to indicate that he had a choice in the matter.
     
  14. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Active Member

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    I have shown it to you from scripture, but you refuse to acknowledge it. Thats between you and God friend.
     
  15. Ed Parenteau

    Ed Parenteau Member Supporter

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    You're the one who is changing words and grammar. Redemption does not mean Resurrection and singular does not mean plural.
    And as to the your going to the resurrection, don't leave out 36Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain.
     
  16. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    The fact that you refuse to even look at Romans1 demonstrates you cannot reconcile it with your Calvinism.
     
  17. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    Thank you for clarifying.
    Predestination to great things is obviously true for a limited number of people, but we are all predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Rom8v29)
     
  18. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Active Member

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    You just talking, you have been shown you are in error.
     
  19. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    You are funny, or at least you think so.
     
  20. George Antonios

    George Antonios Member

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    Not redemption of the soul, but redemption of the body, yes.
    Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
     
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