LDS There is no God in heaven except with flesh and bones

[Rescued One]

"That which is without body, parts, and passions is nothing. There is no God in heaven except with flesh and bones."
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 181

Doctrine and Covenants 130
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.
Doctrine and Covenants 130


Where is the Holy Ghost?

 

[Greg J.]

God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.” (John 4:24, 1984 NIV)

 

[dzheremi]

"That which is without body, parts, and passions is nothing. There is no God in heaven except with flesh and bones."
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 181

Doctrine and Covenants 130
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.
Doctrine and Covenants 130


Where is the Holy Ghost?

Dwelling in people, like the D&C says...?

I'm reminded here of how excruciatingly literally/carnally Mormons tend to understand theological matters (no doubt as a result of teaching like the first one you present), to the point of arguing that their gods are bound within space and time, so maybe their Holy Ghost really isn't up there, because it would be a contradiction to say that he is both in believers and in heaven? (I know it isn't actually a contradiction, but that could follow from their belief that gods are bound within space and time, since they have physical bodies.)

Like you get up to Mormon heaven, and there's the Mormon Jesus and the Mormon God the Father, and where the Holy Ghost would be there's a "Gone Fishin'"-type sign saying something like "Gone to be in the hearts of all good Mormon believers. Back later."

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Rescued One]

Dwelling in people, like the D&C says...?

I'm reminded here of how excruciatingly literally/carnally Mormons tend to understand theological matters (no doubt as a result of teaching like the first one you present), to the point of arguing that their gods are bound within space and time, so maybe their Holy Ghost really isn't up there, because it would be a contradiction to say that he is both in believers and in heaven? (I know it isn't actually a contradiction, but that could follow from their belief that gods are bound within space and time, since they have physical bodies.)

Like you get up to Mormon heaven, and there's the Mormon Jesus and the Mormon God the Father, and where the Holy Ghost would be there's a "Gone Fishin'"-type sign saying something like "Gone to be in the hearts of all good Mormon believers. Back later."

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

is right!

“The Holy Ghost as a personage of Spirit can no more be omnipresent in person than can the Father or the Son, but by his intelligence, his knowledge, his power and influence, over and through the laws of nature, he is and can be omnipresent throughout all the works of God” (Gospel Doctrine, 5th ed. [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1939], p. 61).

Point out that the person of the Holy Ghost can be in only one place at a time, but his
power and influence can be omnipresent—present everywhere at the same time.
https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shar...ronicPriesthood3/ap3-17-the-holy-ghost_20.pdf

“That the [Holy Ghost] is capable of manifesting Himself in the form and figure of man,” wrote Dr. James E. Talmage, “is indicated by the wonderful interview between the Spirit and Nephi, in which He revealed Himself to the prophet, questioned him concerning his desires and belief, instructed him in the things of God, speaking face to face with the man. ‘I spake unto him,’ says Nephi, ‘as a man speaketh; for I beheld that he was in the form of a man; yet nevertheless, I knew that it was the Spirit of the Lord; and he spake unto me as a man speaketh with another.’” (Discourses on the Holy Ghost, comp. N. B. Lundwall, Bookcraft, Inc., 1959, p. 13.)
The Holy Ghost - Marion G. Romney

 

[Rescued One]

"The gift of the Holy Ghost is an endowment which gives one the right to enjoy the enlightenment, companionship, and guidance of the Spirit and the influence of the Holy Spirit as long as he complies with the commandments of God."
The Holy Ghost - Marion G. Romney

 

[Rescued One]

Like you get up to Mormon heaven, and there's the Mormon Jesus and the Mormon God the Father, and where the Holy Ghost would be there's a "Gone Fishin'"-type sign saying something like "Gone to be in the hearts of all good Mormon believers. Back later."

Sorry! JESUS isn't always there!


"People in the terrestrial kingdom will see Jesus. But they cannot live with Heavenly Father and Jesus."
Chapter 26: The Three Kingdoms of Heaven: 16 February 1832

D&C 76
77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.

 

[dzheremi]

Ahhhhh! What is going on with Mormon theology?! Every time I think I'm understanding it from its own sources, it goes on to contradict itself so that you can't really tell what is going on! The D&C says "Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us", and then Gospel Doctrine says "The Holy Ghost as a personage of Spirit can no more be omnipresent in person than can the Father or the Son", but only by "his intelligence, his knowledge, his power and influence, over and through the laws of nature."

If it's just about his "intelligence" and all this other nonsense, then why does it matter that he is a personage of spirit rather than of flesh and bone?!

When you take them together (or try to), you get a message that says "He is a personage of spirit so that he may dwell with in us, but he cannot actually dwell with in us, just sort of influence us through his effects on the laws of nature."

WHAT IN GEHENNA DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?!

It's a bit bizarre that Mormonism as a religion is so focused on fulfilling laws, since it can't seem to follow its own...and it made all those up in the first place!

 

[Rescued One]

Now you know why I had to leave!



I was told that all the spirits have human shaped spirit bodies, but I haven't found that in writing.

 

[dzheremi]

Thanks be to God that you left, Phoebe Ann.

And the spirits may have "human shaped bodies"? Wow. Mormonism is the most human-centered religion...it's a shame the atheists already took the name "Humanism" to brand their own philosophy with, because if they hadn't I think Mormonism would have a much easier time re-branding itself as "Humanism" than as some kind of Christianity or Christ-based religion.

 

[Ironhold]

The theology holds that Heavenly Father and Jesus have perfected bodies.

No specifics have been revealed beyond this.

 

[dzheremi]

What does that mean, "perfected bodies"?

 

[Rescued One]

What does that mean, "perfected bodies"?

They don't have any blood and they're celestial bodies --- those are the best kind.

In the resurrection from the dead, the bodies which were laid down natural bodies shall come forth spiritual bodies. That is to say, in mortality the life of the body is in the blood, but the body when raised to immortality shall be quickened by the spirit and not the blood. Hence, it becomes spiritual, but it will be composed of flesh and bones, just as the body of Jesus was, who is the prototype.


These modern blind teachers of the blind who deny the literal resurrection have a very false understanding of what is meant by a spiritual body. They have based their conclusion on the statement that Paul makes that the body is raised a spiritual body and that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. They cannot conceive in their minds of a body raised from the dead, being composed of flesh and bones, quickened by spirit and not by blood.


When Paul spoke of the spiritual body, he had no reference at all to the spirit body, and there they have made their mistake. They have confused the spiritual body, or, in other words, the body quickened by the spirit, with the body of the spirit alone. They think that those who believe in the resurrection of the literal body believe that it shall be raised again, quickened by blood, which is not the case.


After the resurrection from the dead our bodies will be spiritual bodies, but they will be bodies that are tangible, bodies that have been purified, but they will nevertheless be bodies of flesh and bones. They will not be blood bodies. They will no longer be quickened by blood but quickened by the spirit which is eternal, and they shall become immortal and shall never die...

Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:.285-286

 

[Rescued One]

Oh, yes, I did read about spirit bodies; I forgot it was in the Book of Mormon which I read cover to cover in the sixties. Spirit bodies refers to those of pre-mortal humans.

Book of Mormon, Ether 3
15 And never have I showed myself unto man whom I have created, for never has man believed in me as thou hast. Seest thou that ye are created after mine own image? Yea, even all men were created in the beginning after mine own image.

16 Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh.
Ether 3

 

[ViaCrucis]

The theology holds that Heavenly Father and Jesus have perfected bodies.

No specifics have been revealed beyond this.

The Lord Jesus has a body, because He's a human being.
The Father, not so much.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Rescued One]

I guess the Mormon Holy Ghost is in the Highest Government Protection Program.