There is No Free Will & There is Free Will & Free Will is a Paradox

Ken Rank

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All three statements are true. There actually may be nothing to discuss, sadly.
God knows the end from the beginning, words like "predestination" are in the bible. Yet, we are told, "choose life" which indicates choice. Both exist, they are not a paradox, this is solved by understanding whose eyes we are looking through. Since God knows the end from the beginning, He knows who will be with Him then and a word like "predestination" can be used because He knows the outcome. That doesn't have to mean He manipulated it so some are saved and some aren't, but rather, that He simply knows who will and won't be there with Him. But from our limited perspective, we don't even know tomorrow let alone the end... so we live making choices and thus free will and predestination exist within scripture without conflict.
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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God knows the end from the beginning, words like "predestination" are in the bible. Yet, we are told, "choose life" which indicates choice. Both exist, they are not a paradox, this is solved by understanding whose eyes we are looking through. Since God knows the end from the beginning, He knows who will be with Him then and a word like "predestination" can be used because He knows the outcome. That doesn't have to mean He manipulated it so some are saved and some aren't, but rather, that He simply knows who will and won't be there with Him. But from our limited perspective, we don't even know tomorrow let alone the end... so we live making choices and thus free will and predestination exist within scripture without conflict.


God can blot someone's name out of the book of life.

And write it back in again.

Discuss.
 
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RDKirk

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God can blot someone's name out of the book of life.

And write it back in again.

Discuss.

That makes God a book keeper rather than an omniscient, sovereign God.
 
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Halbhh

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God knows the end from the beginning, words like "predestination" are in the bible. Yet, we are told, "choose life" which indicates choice. Both exist, they are not a paradox, this is solved by understanding whose eyes we are looking through. Since God knows the end from the beginning, He knows who will be with Him then and a word like "predestination" can be used because He knows the outcome. That doesn't have to mean He manipulated it so some are saved and some aren't, but rather, that He simply knows who will and won't be there with Him. But from our limited perspective, we don't even know tomorrow let alone the end... so we live making choices and thus free will and predestination exist within scripture without conflict.

listening to the exact wording...--

8“Remember this, keep it in mind,
take it to heart, you rebels.

9Remember the former things, those of long ago;
I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me.

10 I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say, ‘My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.’

11From the east I summon a bird of prey;
from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose.
What I have said, that I will bring about;
what I have planned, that I will do.

12 Listen to me, you stubborn-hearted,
you who are now far from my righteousness.

13 I am bringing my righteousness near,
it is not far away;
and my salvation will not be delayed.
I will grant salvation to Zion,
my splendor to Israel. "

Isaiah 46 NIV
 
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Roidecoeur78

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How are aspects of God being omnipotent, eternal, and almighty even possible, unless He is in complete control of everyone, everything, and everywhere?

The only will that could be said to be free is His will, since all the rest are contained within Him.

While ongoing choice making is necessary, and potential options seem countless to a finite mind, what one chooses is contingent upon who and what one is and the circumstances surrounding the choice- none of which a person is actually the author of.

"For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes." Matthew 18:7

"One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” Romans 9:19

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son" Romans 8:29

"His dominion is an eternal dominion;
his kingdom endures from generation to generation.
All the peoples of the earth
are regarded as nothing.
He does as he pleases
with the powers of heaven
and the peoples of the earth.
No one can hold back his hand
or say to him: “What have you done?” Daniel 4:34-35

"What you are about to do, do quickly." John 13:27

Does it sound like there is a freedom of will involved in there? When the scripture warns or advises people what to choose to do or not do, it is already well known what they are going to do or not do. God is justified by the fact that the disobedient have been told and warned, and still their own will is what they seek to do.
 
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Dave-W

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Discuss.

All three statements are true. There actually may be nothing to discuss, sadly.
Only a paradox in western (Greek) logic which is of pagan origin.

NOT a paradox in Hebraic (biblical) logic.
 
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Radagast

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Discuss.

All three statements are true. There actually may be nothing to discuss, sadly.

It only seems like a paradox because you're using "free will" as a vague term. There are different kinds of free will, and different ways of resolving the apparent paradox.
 
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Halbhh

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God knows the end from the beginning, words like "predestination" are in the bible. Yet, we are told, "choose life" which indicates choice. Both exist, they are not a paradox, this is solved by understanding whose eyes we are looking through. Since God knows the end from the beginning, He knows who will be with Him then and a word like "predestination" can be used because He knows the outcome. That doesn't have to mean He manipulated it so some are saved and some aren't, but rather, that He simply knows who will and won't be there with Him. But from our limited perspective, we don't even know tomorrow let alone the end... so we live making choices and thus free will and predestination exist within scripture without conflict.

Listening to the words of Isaiah ch 46 as above then, we learn

"What I have said, that I will bring about;
what I have planned, that I will do."

God chooses what He wants to make happen, and then does it. While we can expect He plans crucial things, and all ultimate things that matter.

One thing that can help to point out is God having made for instance a butterfly that works, doesn't need to control its flight, but instead He's already created it perfect, a creature that works without any need for controlling. We get in scripture a picture of creatures that are functional, working, and then God intervenes when He chooses to alter the outcomes in key things as He chooses.
 
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RDKirk

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You are incorrect.

So does God go through each of our days writing down our names every time we have a "good day" and blotting them back out again every time we have "bad day?"
 
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LoveofTruth

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All three statements are true. There actually may be nothing to discuss, sadly.
Isaiah 66:3,4 “...Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. 4. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.”
 
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BobRyan

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Discuss.

All three statements are true. There actually may be nothing to discuss, sadly.


the lost are enslaved to sin (Romans 6) and all mankind has a depraved sinful nature Romans 3:9-20.

However God provides "supernatural drawing of all mankind" John 12:32 that "enables choice" for all mankind --- specifically the choice to respond positively to the Holy Spirit and enter into the Gospel covenant with God - the New Covenant.

Once there - free will is restored.
 
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