There is a problem with saying, God created more than He was expecting - please help

[Gottservant]

Hi there,

So I have tried to come at Evolution from every angle I could have - probably more than I should have, given that it is the Holy Spirit's responsibility, how we should conduct ourselves in the attempt to win people to the faith. Now I am just being as honest as I can: God does not just create to the point that He shocks Himself - I know this, and I have no idea how to prove it, even make sense of it.

Holy Spirit, help!

I don't want to see my God, that way. Why then should I be treated as if my integrity is flawed, or simply faith, nothing more? I mean it really, really hurts and scripture says God won't let it stand (but that He will give justice to those who seek Him).

I know God gave them to delusion of their own baseness, but why did God let it fall on the head of the Elect? Not one hair of their head shall be lost?

I don't want to whinge "it's not fair", I want to understand that somehow "God did not prepare for Evolution" and yet the Elect were saved.

I think what I am getting at is that as Believers, we have a common "Evolution, that is not of this world" - I am not sure how that sits with you: that is why I am bringing it to you now?

Is this something that the Holy Spirit would back up?

For a start it would mean 'survival of the fittest' was out, second it would mean that the greater would serve the less and third, it would mean that there was a logic to those who returned with the Lord, regardless of having died.

Do you see what I am getting at?

Jesus said "By this the world will know you are my disciples, if you have love for one another" - is a believer specific Evolution, love? If not, why do the world treat each other as if it is?

There has to be love one way or the other (and I am prepared to see it to the end, don't get me wrong!).

Do you see what I am getting at? Would you identify with Christian specific Evolution?

Thanks for your thoughts, anyway,
C

 

[SkyWriting]

Do you see what I am getting at? Would you identify with Christian specific Evolution?

Love means allowing people to love you....not be your love slaves or robots.
To force love would be rape.

 

[Brightmoon]

I’ve got a biology degree and there is no such thing as Christian evolution. I’m really not sure what you mean by this post as evolution/ common descent is simply a fact of natural phenomena. I never could understand why some believers have a problem with a fact. The denial and obfuscation over evolution just seems stupid to me

 

[Greengardener]

Gottservant, I'm stumped as to what you are asking or seeking here. Would you mind to give it another shot?

 

[Gottservant]

Since you asked so politely, yes, I will attempt to speak about the main point.

The problem is this: God does not lose sleep, knowing His Creation may have changed in the night.

Scripture backs this up: "they said to the Master 'did you not sow wheat, how then does it have tares?'" - in other words, how is it possible that Evolutionists call themselves such, when we already have the concept "Creation"? Why did they not trust "Creation"?

The solution then, as far as God is concerned, is to let Creation and Evolution grow together - the one will be saved and the other destroyed. But in the meantime, it is necessary to "watch" that the Day of harvest not be missed, or ignored, or refused. The idea that I had then, was to allow a transference of the concept of Evolution, onto the pre-existing concept of Creation - not so that the concept of "Creation" be changed, but so that the extension of the concept of Creation, be seen for what it is - a concept.

"It is important to agree with your adversary on the way" (paraphrase Jesus) therefore, if there is anything in us that is not of Creation, we must confess it before God, before the Devil has his way. Internalizing the concept of Evolution, is one way of ensuring that we do not transgress, either Creation or Evolution. This is because we learn to "watch" for "Evolution", and indeed may catch the one responsible for it, because we are watching.

If then, we take gathering together in the Name of Creation, as we do when we go to Church, and identify with it an Evolution that is unique to the Church (we go to), then we have found something that justifies interpreting Creation through a different lens. We may even find, that we are able to mount an argument against Evolution, on the basis that the only Evolution we have found, was unique to us, as we were created with the image of God held to us, that is that we may have been shaped by God. Being shaped by God, is the point: if we have no connection with God, we die - Evolution or not. I am not trying to deceive people, I am just saying in as much as Creation and Evolution seem interchangeable, it seems worthwhile to contextualize Creation above Evolution, that is, explicitly.

I know I didn't do a good job of simplifying Creation over Evolution, but if you look at the bold and the quotes of Jesus, you should have something to go on. By all means, ask for clarification again and I will take you as you stand.

It is helping me, just to write this, so try not to be frustrated, while I work it out...

Thanks,
C

 

[Greengardener]

Those are interesting thoughts, Gottservant. When I was reading your reply, I was struck with the thought of how the "modern Christians" have evolved from what I see in the scriptures about the early church. For one thing, they WERE the church (individually responsible). Now we GO TO church (we attend at a franchise, for all intents and purposes). The truth hasn't morphed, but it appears our view of it has gotten skewed.

I'm not sure if I'm fully tracking with you or not, though.

I've often wondered if God, in His secure position as God, can easily afford to wait patiently to see who is going to actually DO this God-interest thing or whether we're just going to come up with a costume, a mask, and a set of mannerisms while we idly let the years pass growing more comfortable in our filthy easy chairs, eating fast food and flipping channels on the Christian dial. Please understand that I'm not passing judgement - I'm telling myself to get out of the chair and start DOING.

 

[Gottservant]

I have developed my thought a little more, substituting "born again" with "evolved again", qualifying that one member of a species, cannot approach the species from more than one perspective and determining that exhausting our current Evolution, in favour of a stronger one, pleases God.

These things have made the madness of keeping a place for Evolution to remain, a little clearer - but I still feel like opposition is coming and it will force me to choose between life and death.

Death also is something I have elaborated, for myself, as a good thing - but I suppose you might wonder, which wants death more than the other? Creation encourages death to the flesh, so there is a definite win there, whereas I think Evolution would rather demarcate where divergence from the flesh is, presumably so that it not be overcome, one way or another.

All these things are fragments. I really want to know what Jesus thought and it is chiefly His Word that I hold onto. That being the case, I remain convinced there is a way to intensify what Evolution stands for, without it being an offence - I have for example, made it clearer that a little design is not intolerable, even if you believe in Evolution. That has sort of given me a sense of progress, if you will understand that I am not believing in Creation less - just more in context.

The point I come back to though, is "God does not lose sleep, knowing His Creation may have changed in the night", there is no way God exchanges a position of strength, for a position of weakness, simply because someone doubts there will ever be an end to their life - there is an end to their life: it is the cross, and the cross will deliver them, if they bear it up and follow Jesus. Somehow I see God as willing to say "ok, you have made it to Heaven, you have one last chance to evolve" but refraining, because He is not willing that they perish, which they will do if they "evolve" the wrong things.

It is as if we need to repent more, not less, that we keep the words of Evolution, knowing that we deceive those who come after us, if we say that Evolution needs an element of concoction, if it is to save their souls - no where does it say that as responsible keepers of Evolution, we need to concoct an extension to it, to validate the Evolution we are up to... "faith does not come by works!" as we say.

I guess that's it. As much as we spiritualize elements of "Evolution", we are never going to win the argument: simply because our opponents (our predators?) defy God to reject them on the basis of their permutation - the notion that perfect at some point, is perfect enough!

Perfect for the greatest point, is only just perfect enough - nothing else will suffice!!

That means, basically, that we have to turn our Evolution, over to Jesus (I only wish someone had told me that, before now!).

So yeah, I am exhausted, but its for Jesus - I know that makes it worthwhile!!!

 

[coffee4u]

Op, I am very confused by your post.

I am a young earth creationist so no I do not identify with evolution in any form. What some people label evolution I do not. I really don't know what you are asking.