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Theology Question's

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by James Hays, Sep 16, 2020.

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  1. James Hays

    James Hays New Member

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    I've got a few theology questions. I visited a church that was not my regular church. The minister at the pulpit (a self-proclaimed prophet) was doing and saying things that I don't believe are biblically correct. Here's a list of some of them:

    1) He was in his church service's selling things for profit and even making change for people if they didn't have exact change for the purchase. H was selling books that he had written (that were not the Bible) and MP3 player's to supposedly play recorded sermon's he had done. Even charging people in church or who called in on the phone to bid for buying locks of his hair or to have the privilege to go up and wash his bare feet while he sat in some chair that looked like a throne. I kid you not LOL. Now doesn't that violate what Jesus taught about not turning his Father's house into a business?

    I mean Jesus himself when he saw them selling in a house of worship got very angry and knocked over the coin changer's tables and used a whip of chords to thrash the place.

    2) He charges people thousands of dollars to "teach them how to be prophet's". Doesn't that violate what the gospel's teach that you can't sell or buy the spiritual gifts of God. I remember Simon in the Bible offered money to the Apostel's in an attempt to buy a spiritual gift and Peter told him: 20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”

    So doesn't that mean that this self-proclaimed prophet selling the gift of prophecy to people for thousands of dollars is actually a sin and an an affront to God?

    3) I witnessed him during his sermon yelling "I love money, I love money, I love money, I love money!" over and over he was yelling that, and on more than one occasion. Now this self-proclaimed prophet also calls himself a bishop. Of course since it's his non denominational church he can call himself any title he wants to LOL. I'm just bringing that up because in the Bible one of the qualification's listed in order to be a bishop in God's church is that a bishop "should not be a lover of money". So doesn't his yelling in church like a lunatic "I love money" over and over violate, again, what the gospel's teach and even disqualify him from being a bishop in God's church?

    4) I witnessed him telling his congregation that if they tithe 10% to his church that God would make them rich. He was telling them that as if it was some biblically guaranteed
    gospel promise. The only thing is that Jesus never promised that. It simply isn't in the gospel that if you tithe 10% that you'll get rich.

    So what is it now can we just make up anything we want and pass it off as if it's Bible gospel truth? Or is that sound gospel that if you tithe 10% that the gospel promises you will indeed get filthy rich?

    Plus this guy spent waaaayyyyy too much time reading out of the Old testament for me. Remember the language in the gospel that says, essentially, that now that the NEW COVENENAT in Christ is here that if they're reading to you out of the old testament they're trying to trick you or up to some chicanery. That's not verbatim reading of the text but that's essentially the point it's trying to convey. Right?

    Oh yea, and I heard this same self-proclaimed prophet telling his congregation "not to give to the poor" but instead to just give your money to him. I don't know about you but I seem to recall Jesus telling his apostles and us, his church, specifically to give to the poor. I know giving is good and for me it actually is a great feeling to know that I've been able to help someone who's desperately poor and really needs help. Call me weird if you like but I'd rather give to a charity or church that I know uses as much of the proceeds as humanly possible right to where the poor need it most rather than to some self-proclaimed, money loving, prophet who drives a Rolls Royce (yes this is true) and shops for his clothes at places like Gucci and Louis Vitton.

    I know that's a lot but I'm hoping there are some people here who really know the scriptures who will chime in on biblically sound answer's to those questions. I've read the Bible rather thoroughly but I'd still like to hear from you good people here.
     
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  2. Daniel Marsh

    Daniel Marsh Well-Known Member

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    The Didache, on Prophets 11:3 And concerning the Apostles and Prophets, act thus according to the ordinance of the Gospel.7 4 Let every Apostle who comes to you be received as the Lord, 5 but let him not stay more than one day, or if need be a second as well; but if he stay three days, he is a false prophet. 6 And when an Apostle goes forth let him accept nothing but bread till he reach his night's lodging; but if he ask for money, he is a false prophet. 7 Do not test or examine any prophet who is speaking in a spirit, "for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven." 8 But not everyone who speaks in a spirit is a prophet, except he have the behaviour of the Lord. From his behaviour, then, the false prophet and the true prophet shall be known. 9 And no prophet who orders a meal in a spirit shall eat of it: otherwise he is a false prophet. 10 And every prophet who teaches the truth, if he do not what he teaches, is a false prophet. 11 But no prophet who has been tried and is genuine, though he enact a worldly mystery8 of the Church, if he teach not others to do what he does himself, shall be judged by you: for he has his judgment with God, for so also did the prophets of old. 12 But whosoever shall say in a spirit `Give me money, or something else,' you shall not listen to him; but if he tell you to give on behalf of others in want, let none judge him. 13:1 But every true prophet who wishes to settle among you is "worthy of his food." 2 Likewise a true teacher is himself worthy, like the workman, of his food. 3 Therefore thou shalt take the firstfruit of the produce of the winepress and of the threshing-floor and of oxen and sheep, and shalt give them as the firstfruits to the prophets, for they are your high priests. 4 But if you have not a prophet, give to the poor. 5 If thou makest bread, take the firstfruits, and give it according to the commandment. 6 Likewise when thou openest a jar of wine or oil, give the firstfruits to the prophets. 7 Of money also and clothes, and of all your possessions, take the firstfruits, as it seem best to you, and give according to the commandment. 15:1 Appoint therefore for yourselves bishops and deacons worthy of the Lord, meek men, and not lovers of money, and truthful and approved, for they also minister to you the ministry of the prophets and teachers. 2 Therefore do not despise them, for they are your honourable men together with the prophets and teachers. http://www.pas.rochester.edu/~tim/study/DidacheAndProphets.pdf
     
  3. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Simul Justus et Peccator Supporter

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    Hello @James Hays, since I saw more red flags than I have fingers in your OP (and I just skimmed it), this is my advice to you, RUN, and never look back.

    God bless you!

    --David
     
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  4. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think it's called simony.
     
  5. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    What he said doubled. Several red flags there.
     
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  6. James Hays

    James Hays New Member

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    Ha ha, don't worry I'm never going to that weird false teaching church again. Me the kind of guy I am I'd like to put a big sign on their church door that reads "Beware of wolves" LOL.

    Anyway thank you for the kind replies and God Bless you all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020 at 11:04 PM
  7. Agallagher

    Agallagher WeAreGivenThePowerToBecomeSonsAndDaughtersOfGod

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    @James Hays One time, being in a church, which had spent probably a couple hundred thousands of dollars to make it big and fancy.

    The preacher one day; while sitting in that church. Sounded this from his voice 'Remember to pay your tithe to pay for this is the church you wanted'.

    Instantly my mind said, haha, great tactic guy but how foolish of you to express that towards people who just need some good instruction and teaching of the word in their life. Never went back. I was only there to see how they preached anyway.

    Also, check this site out of you ever get a chance to brother. https://www.checkmychurch.org/

    This website was made by a person who goes around checking out churches, though I haven't fully went through it, has in-depth information about many different churches.

    God bless everyone!
     
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  8. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yelp allows for that sort of thing. So does Google Maps.
     
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  9. Daniel Marsh

    Daniel Marsh Well-Known Member

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    read to here
     
  10. James Hays

    James Hays New Member

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    You say you see "red flags" well then what specifically are some things you see that are biblically wrong with what that guy was saying in the OP?
     
  11. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    See below.
    I've got a few theology questions. I visited a church that was not my regular church. The minister at the pulpit (a self-proclaimed prophet) was doing and saying things that I don't believe are biblically correct. Here's a list of some of them:
    1) He was in his church service's selling things for profit and even making change for people if they didn't have exact change for the purchase. H was selling books that he had written (that were not the Bible) and MP3 player's to supposedly play recorded sermon's he had done. Even charging people in church or who called in on the phone to bid for buying locks of his hair or to have the privilege to go up and wash his bare feet while he sat in some chair that looked like a throne. I kid you not LOL. Now doesn't that violate what Jesus taught about not turning his Father's house into a business?
    I mean Jesus himself when he saw them selling in a house of worship got very angry and knocked over the coin changer's tables and used a whip of chords to thrash the place.
    2) He charges people thousands of dollars to "teach them how to be prophet's". Doesn't that violate what the gospel's teach that you can't sell or buy the spiritual gifts of God. I remember Simon in the Bible offered money to the Apostel's in an attempt to buy a spiritual gift and Peter told him: 20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”
    So doesn't that mean that this self-proclaimed prophet selling the gift of prophecy to people for thousands of dollars is actually a sin and an an affront to God?
    3) I witnessed him during his sermon yelling "I love money, I love money, I love money, I love money!" over and over he was yelling that, and on more than one occasion. Now this self-proclaimed prophet also calls himself a bishop. Of course since it's his non denominational church he can call himself any title he wants to LOL. I'm just bringing that up because in the Bible one of the qualification's listed in order to be a bishop in God's church is that a bishop "should not be a lover of money". So doesn't his yelling in church like a lunatic "I love money" over and over violate, again, what the gospel's teach and even disqualify him from being a bishop in God's church?
    4) I witnessed him telling his congregation that if they tithe 10% to his church that God would make them rich. He was telling them that as if it was some biblically guaranteed
    gospel promise.
    The only thing is that Jesus never promised that. It simply isn't in the gospel that if you tithe 10% that you'll get rich.
    So what is it now can we just make up anything we want and pass it off as if it's Bible gospel truth? Or is that sound gospel that if you tithe 10% that the gospel promises you will indeed get filthy rich?
    Plus this guy spent waaaayyyyy too much time reading out of the Old testament for me. Remember the language in the gospel that says, essentially, that now that the NEW COVENENAT in Christ is here that if they're reading to you out of the old testament they're trying to trick you or up to some chicanery. That's not verbatim reading of the text but that's essentially the point it's trying to convey. Right?
    Oh yea, and I heard this same self-proclaimed prophet telling his congregation "not to give to the poor" but instead to just give your money to him. I don't know about you but I seem to recall Jesus telling his apostles and us, his church, specifically to give to the poor. I know giving is good and for me it actually is a great feeling to know that I've been able to help someone who's desperately poor and really needs help. Call me weird if you like but I'd rather give to a charity or church that I know uses as much of the proceeds as humanly possible right to where the poor need it most rather than to some self-proclaimed, money loving, prophet who drives a Rolls Royce (yes this is true) and shops for his clothes at places like Gucci and Louis Vitton.
    I know that's a lot but I'm hoping there are some people here who really know the scriptures who will chime in on biblically sound answer's to those questions. I've read the Bible rather thoroughly but I'd still like to hear from you good people here.
    I shouldn't have to point this out.
     
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  12. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Making the faith a 'pay to play' sort of thing.
     
  13. Daniel Marsh

    Daniel Marsh Well-Known Member

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    read to here
     
  14. James Hays

    James Hays New Member

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    :wave::wave::wave:
     
  15. James Hays

    James Hays New Member

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    That's fine but I was just hoping you would say something about it more in depth and in your own words rather than just repeating back what I already wrote. I already know what I think about it I was hoping to have meaningful conversations with others about it. You know like reasonable human beings do, discuss ideas, concepts, and opinions in a reasonable fashion rather than settle everything with bombs and missile's. Maybe that's too much to ask?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020 at 11:33 PM
  16. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    I was asked a specific question which did not require my own words, "You say you see "red flags" well then what specifically are some things you see that are biblically wrong." I was not asked for an explanation.
    Numbers 1 & 2.

    Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
    Number 3
    1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
    Number 4 can't prove a negative but zero scriptures say that tithing will make a person wealthy.
    "do not give to the poor."

    Deuteronomy 15:7-8
    7 If there be among you a needy man, one of thy brethren, within any of thy gates, in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thy heart, nor shut thy hand from thy needy brother;
    8 but thou shalt surely open thy hand unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need in that which he wanteth.



     
  17. James Hays

    James Hays New Member

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    Thanks for your insightful reply I really appreciate it. God bless you.

    By the way here is a link about the son of the false teaching minister I was referring to in my OP. Here is a newspaper story about His son Manasseh (who in their right mind is going to name their son a name that starts with 'manass'? Well it does LOL) Anyway the article is about just one of the many lawsuits that have been brought against his ministry for robo-calling people asking for "seed money" and refusing to remove the people from their call list when asked." I can confirm that they do that because it happened to me. I asked them to remove me from their call list (talking to a real person in their ministry) and they refused to do it and flat out LIED to me saying that no one new in their entire church new how to remove people from the call list. That's an obvious LIE and actually a violation of Federal Law. His church lost the lawsuit of over and the victims were awarded over $500,000 by the court. I think it's very telling that ALL of the high priced attorneys their lying ministry hired actually withdrew from the case before it was completed. Here's the link>>> Federal court grants default judgment against 'prophet' who's made millions from millions of robocalls His father Bernard has been sued for the same thing as well. They have to pay YOU $500 to $1500 per call they place to you after you've requested to be removed from their call list. That same law applies to any telemarketer.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020 at 8:50 AM
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