Theological/Political coincidence?

[Didaskomenos]

From what I can tell, the theological liberals tend to be political leftists, and the opposite for conservatives. Is this the case for you? Why do you think that is?

I personally am rather liberal in theology, and libertarian in political persuasion. I abhor the leftist mindset, and although I have more respect for the right wing in general, I still distance myself from them markedly. I have arrived at this stage out of respect for the U.S. Consitution and the philosophies that influenced it. I think that government has no business doing anything but protecting the life, liberty, and wealth of its citizens.

I know that most conservative Christians (in the U.S., anyway) would not be surprised by my political views, because I am a liberal in theology, and they would simply lump me in with leftist liberals. I wonder if my theologically liberal + politically leftist friends would likewise associate me with the right.

Do you leftist theological liberals feel that your political leanings are somewhat part and parcel of, or at least related to your theological positions? Vice versa?

 

[GreenPartyVoter]

I am left-leaning and yes, it is my spiritual beliefs that have led me that way.
See the various pages of my website for more on that: http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/ (I have links to quizzes if folks aren't sure where they land on the political or spiritual spectrum.)

 

[Rocinante]

Didaskom,

If you mean you are strongly liberal in your theology, I would say this......

Being theologically liberal and politically conservative just means you are both greedy and willing to OPENLY ignore the Bible.

It means you are far more honest than the FundaGelicals who thump their Bibles and pretend to be pious and pretend to care about the poor while they simultaneously oppress and exploit those poor and support murder for profit on a global scale.

Me? I'm a moderate.

 

[GreenPartyVoter]

Well, I dunno. I don't think that it's such a stretch to be a liberal theologist and a libertarian. (Personally, I think free trade sucks eggs, but that's just my opinion.) Can't see folks being a liberal theologist and an extremely-right-leaning Republican though, but honestly you just never know. God has created us to be very unique individuals, so never say never to the possibility of unusual combinations.

 

[Didaskomenos]

Greedy! As though there's something wrong with thinking that everyone should have the right to keep the money they earn! The more of their own money Christians keep, the more they can be about their God-given duty to care for those who need help, and the less government police power is used to seize that money and spend it on the majority of lazy citizens who will vote to keep their plunder checks coming in. As Jesus said, the poor we will always have with us - but in America it's usually your own darn fault if you can't make ends meet, and in the other cases, it's the Church's responsibility. That's my theology of libertarianism.

P.S. My libertarian slant is in principle only. I don't care for the bozos in the American Libertarian Party. I vote for whomever will meet the demands of the libertarian philosophy the best.

 

[Rocinante]

The greedy always think it's THEIR money......and try to get them to share it by helping to provide equal health care for all children. Like trying to get a juicy steak out of the jaws of a hungry bulldog.

It's actually not theirs at all. It's God's money.

And God will repay the greedy, just as the Bible says.

 

[Didaskomenos]

Very well, the government CERTAINLY has no business stealing God's money from those he has seen it fit to appropriate it to.

 

[Didaskomenos]

Besides, if we weren't overtaxed, the Church, the charitable organizations, and the EEEEVIL filthy rich philanthropists would take up the responsibility for taking care of childrens' needs (they already do a pretty decent job of it), not the unwilling who the government has just robbed ("for God loveth a COERCED giver"?!). As Mao Zedong observed, "All power comes from the barrel of a gun," the government's in this case, and that kind of charity is an affront to true Christian Charity and freedom. So there! (so what's a little disagreement among "free thinkers"?)

My, you'd think I actually had more than a few cents to my name, the way I'm talking!

 

[GreenPartyVoter]

"Give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to give to God the things that are God's." (Matthew 22:21)

"Let every soul be in subjection to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those who be are ordained by God. Therefore he who resists the authority, withstands the ordinance of God; and those who withstand will receive to themselves judgment. For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. Do you desire to have no fear of the authority? Do that which is good, and you will have praise from the same, for he is a servant of God to you for good. But if you do that which is evil, be afraid, for he doesn't bear the sword in vain; for he is a minister of God, an avenger for wrath to him who does evil.

Therefore you need to be in subjection, not only because of the wrath, but also for conscience' sake. For this reason you also pay taxes, for they are ministers of God's service, attending continually on this very thing. Give therefore to everyone what you owe: taxes to whom taxes are due; customs to whom customs; respect to whom respect; honor to whom honor." (Romans 13:1-7)

I like the message of this website, but I do not like the way it is delivered. A bit mean: Caring for the poor via the government.

 

[Rocinante]

My, you'd think I actually had more than a few cents to my name, the way I'm talking!

Rozzi sez: Yes, that's the sad part. Greed can exist in the poor as well as the rich. Those poor then become the dupes of the rich and work against their own interests.

Personally, I see this as increasing and it probably has something to do with the Right Wing cable news channels slowly sucking the brains out of millions of Americans.

Too bad, because God will deal with the oppressors of the poor (especially those who are allied with those who deny equal health insurance to all children).

And the poor who cooperate with the rich oppressors are just as guilty as the rich oppressors.

 

[Didaskomenos]

"Give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to give to God the things that are God's." (Matthew 22:21)

Definitely. As long as Uncle Caesar says to give him his money, we will not cheat on our taxes. That has nothing to do with this discussion. In America, WE determine what is "Caesar's", and where that money goes once he's siezed it from us.

"Let every soul be in subjection to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those who be are ordained by God. Therefore he who resists the authority, withstands the ordinance of God; and those who withstand will receive to themselves judgment. For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. Do you desire to have no fear of the authority? Do that which is good, and you will have praise from the same, for he is a servant of God to you for good. But if you do that which is evil, be afraid, for he doesn't bear the sword in vain; for he is a minister of God, an avenger for wrath to him who does evil.

Therefore you need to be in subjection, not only because of the wrath, but also for conscience' sake. For this reason you also pay taxes, for they are ministers of God's service, attending continually on this very thing. Give therefore to everyone what you owe: taxes to whom taxes are due; customs to whom customs; respect to whom respect; honor to whom honor." (Romans 13:1-7)

Using this quote here is a crock. In a constitutional republic, the voters are God's agents in determining the leaders of America. And we have every right to insist that thievery is not considered "kindness". In the Roman Empire of Paul's time, the leaders decided where the money went, and it definitely didn't go towards a welfare state then - notice Paul didn't beg for that to happen, either.

Caring for the poor via the government.

More like: Stealing from a minority in order to get re-elected by a greedy and lazy majority.

 

[Didaskomenos]

Rozzi sez: Yes, that's the sad part. Greed can exist in the poor as well as the rich. Those poor then become the dupes of the rich and work against their own interests.

True greed is not wanting to keep what you work for, it's wanting to take money you haven't worked for from people who have worked for it. I believe in America, and work ethic, and although I'm not wealthy yet, God help me succeed in America with my money intact, so that I can help the truly needy, not just the welfare slugs.

Personally, I see this as increasing and it probably has something to do with the Right Wing cable news channels slowly sucking the brains out of millions of Americans.

You wouldn't know bias in the media if Ted Turner and Dan Rather came out and bit you on the brain.

Too bad, because God will deal with the oppressors of the poor (especially those who are allied with those who deny equal health insurance to all children).

And the poor who cooperate with the rich oppressors are just as guilty as the rich oppressors.

I don't deny health insurance to children. I think every parent should be made to take care of their own blasted kids, not encouraged by "free money" to let the government do their responsibility, and if those parents can't, won't or don't, then it's the responsibility of the willing - not just the wealthy, but of anyone with conscience. Freedom and responsibility are the key words for libertarians.

 

[GreenPartyVoter]

If you haven't yet, you'll need to pop into the news and politics forums. Lots of threads there to talk about economics on.

 

[Rocinante]

GPV,

I'm not talking about news, politices or economics. I'm talking about sin. A callous attitude toward the poor. The sin of Sodom, as clearly stated in Ezekiel 16. A greedy attitude that would cause someone to say:

I think every parent should be made to take care of their own blasted kids

That attitude is sin because it leaves millions of children without health care and cynically and disingenuously BLAMES the parents of those children (who are probably doing the best they can in the current situation).

At any rate, it surely leaves helpless children to suffer, while allowing the greedy one to blame others.

Such actions and attitudes are sin.

 

[Didaskomenos]

Ok. Have it your way. Being responsible for the life you bring into this world is sin. An extremely high number of parents in America today have no business downloading new little ones because they're enslaved to the government and what it can do for them. "Probably doing the best they can in the current situation" - what exactly is the current situation? Drug addiction? Alcohol abuse? The uncontrollable urge to reproduce like rabbits?

I'm not blaming parents alone. I'm blaming people like you who don't care enough about those children to belong to or create grassroots programs to care for the innocent children in the proper way, or to teach their clueless parents how to live as free individuals. I'm blaming people who want the government to give children fish from cradle to grave without ever once teaching them how to bait the hook, be patient, and go through the necessary actions to land the fish for themselves. It's the way that requires the least amount of actual involvement, because it's so much easier to force the people with a work ethic, decision-making capabilities, and marketable job skills to foot the bill. That's apathy under another cloak. That's sin.

Do you realize what I would go through to take care of my child? I hope you don't stand outside the White House when your child has leukemia and ask for the house doctor. Whatever kids you're talking about (if in fact you have any real world reference) have access via innumerable channels to medical attention. No American kid's gotta die because his/her parents aren't wealthy. Kids aren't refused to emergency rooms or anything like that. It depends on how much mental capacity the parents have available to decide what they're going to do about it.

Do we need reform in health care? Definitely. Something's gotta change, and I don't know that the government will not have to force the hand of the insurance companies in order to make health care more affordable. But the way for that to happen is not through socialism, which never stops rolling over freedom. Have there been certain isolated scenarios where a child tragically slips through the cracks? Of course! No system is perfect! But it's the Church's fault, the fault of decent-minded citizens, not the government's. The nanny state already educates most of our youngsters, and if socialists have their way, before long they'll take the burden of paying their medical bills. This ideal is becoming so popular that in thirty years, no parent will have to do anything for their children but create them, and the control of future generations will belong to power-ravenous government. Bringing that kind of society into existence is irresponsible. And irresponsibility is sin.