Theodicy-Why do bad things happen to good people

[Randy B]

Do you think an ant can understand a human being?

I don't think that's a fair comparison but it's hard to say. I'm not sure where ants are on their development of morals and ethics.

In my ant-like (when compared to God) understanding, I would say that if you can prevent it, you shouldn't let children be raped (profound, I know). That must be must be woefully underdeveloped and simplistic compared to God's.

 

[Randy B]

Sorry for the tinge of sarcasm. I am not here to troll or insult anybody, but I would like to make my point effectively.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I hear ya, Philo. I would say that my ethical framework is Utilitarianism.

I appreciate that you're forthcoming in identifying your ethical position, but simply doing 'this' doesn't pull you out of the proverbial fire of scrutiny. Which form or approach to Utilitarianism do you think is the "right one"? That of Stuart Mill? That of Jeremy Bentham, instead? How about that of Peter Singer? Or one of the other ones?

See? As a philosopher, I'm going to vet out your position so that, just in case I'm confused in my own axiological musings, I can come to see where either it is you or it is I who is going wrong in his own ethical thinking.

Granted, I already know the biblical position of ethics on the whole is difficult to establish. So, I'm not making the same mistake to which a "tu qoque" argument/criticism can be applied to me. No, I don't 'assume' the bible as a presupposition. In fact, if anything, I start existentially in saying: I'm not sure anyone (other than a possible omniscient god) REALLY knows what is actually fully present in human social reality by which we can most accurately identify and maintain exacting axiological injunctions, moral rules or applied morality. Of course, this isn't to say that I'm a fan of Nietzsche; I'm not.

I fully recognize that there is some good stuff in the Bible. However, if I am to take something on as a guide for how I should live my life, it seems like it would make sense to evaluate all of its claims and instruction.

Surely enough, it would make sense. So the question is: have you? And have you done so by the more rigorous praxes [plural] of hermeneutics [also plural, here] and analytics?

It seems natural that when you're questioning the validity of something you would start with those things that you disagree with.

I don't know that I'd agree with that. I rather start with the notion, existentially speaking, that everything---and I mean just about everything---is up for scrutiny. I look at those things that I in knee-jerk reaction disagree with, but also pay close attention to those things that I may "think" I agree with in looking at an opposing or alternative position.

Scientific Claims
Questionable Morals
Violence
Conflicting Claims (not small details, but big concepts)

These are the things that concern me. Particularly if I'm being told that this is the inspired word of God, who is worthy of my praise, is all-powering, all-loving, and all-knowing, and is in control of my eternal well-being.

Well, forgive me if, as a philosopher, I suggest that there should be additional nuances of epistemic, metaphysical and axiological possibility in our shared reality that you also could be concerned about. In fact, I'd assert that Reality, both physical and social, is more complex than that which comes by the four areas of concern you've mentioned here thus far.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I don't think that's a fair comparison but it's hard to say. I'm not sure where ants are on their development of morals and ethics.

In my ant-like (when compared to God) understanding, I would say that if you can prevent it, you shouldn't let children be raped (profound, I know). That must be must be woefully underdeveloped and simplistic compared to God's.

I will answer this in general. If God went around stopping all evil in the world that he could, he would be essentially what we call in today's slang, "a helicopter parent". One that swoops in and rescues their child from all boo boos and frustrations, so the children later on in life have trouble standing on their own two feet when they encounter any difficulty.


Their are a few problems with this.

1) Evil people would probably not learn from their mistakes, bad life choices etc. Not that they often do with various kinds of punishment anyway, but they occasionally do.


2) Some kinds of suffering can be beneficial to the individual, at least when handled with the right attitude etc. This does not work as a universal theodicy, but does have some applications for what we see in the Bible, history, and the lives of various individuals.


3) But much of this gets back to the issue of human will, sentience etc. In a nut shell if you prize things like human sentience, choice etc. you need to make room for it, and that also means making room for it to go awry.

 

[Randy B]

Which form or approach to Utilitarianism do you think is the "right one"? That of Stuart Mill? That of Jeremy Bentham, instead? How about that of Peter Singer? Or one of the other ones?

Admittedly, Philo, as a "degreed" philosopher, you have clearly spent more time on this than I have. If you had to nail me down to a type, I would lean toward Rule Utilitarianism. Admittedly, I have not spent a great deal of time on this. I do not claim to be an expert in this field.

Surely enough, it would make sense. So the question is: have you? And have you done so by the more rigorous praxes [plural] of hermeneutics [also plural, here] and analytics?

I am in the process of evaluating these claims. Part of that is taking place as we speak.



Scientific Claims
Questionable Morals
Violence
Conflicting Claims (not small details, but big concepts)

Well, forgive me if, as a philosopher, I suggest that there should be additional nuances of epistemic, metaphysical and axiological possibility in our shared reality that you also could be concerned about. In fact, I'd assert that Reality, both physical and social, is more complex than that which comes by the four areas of concern you've mentioned here thus far.

The items you are referring to here are my current concerns when evaluating the Bible and the concepts/issues that I am exploring.

It's great that you're able to use big words; good for you, that's impressive. I am trying to have a layperson's conversation with easily understandable concepts and discussion. I realize that addressing these subjects can result in needing to touch on complex topics. However, I don't see a need to throw around a bunch of big words unnecessarily for whatever reasons (I won't speculate on what those may be).

 

[solid_core]

I recommend the book called "Theodicy" by G.W. Leibniz.

You will find all possible polemics and formulated problems regarding this issue and Leibniz also offers a great, systematic, godly solution.

 

[Randy B]

I will answer this in general. If God went around stopping all evil in the world that he could, he would be essentially what we call in today's slang, "a helicopter parent". One that swoops in and rescues their child from all boo boos and frustrations, so the children later on in life have trouble standing on their own two feet when they encounter any difficulty.

I'm not talking about boo boos and frustrations. I am talking about child rape. Let me know if you can't see a difference in the two.

Sorry, you're issue number 1 above is not worth addressing.

2) Some kinds of suffering can be beneficial to the individual, at least when handled with the right attitude etc. This does not work as a universal theodicy, but does have some applications for what we see in the Bible, history, and the lives of various individuals.

I'm not talking about this type of suffering. See my point above.

3) But much of this gets back to the issue of human will, sentience etc. In a nut shell if you prize things like human sentience, choice etc. you need to make room for it, and that also means making room for it to go awry.

This is your best point, but, in my mind, it does not override the importance of protecting an innocent, defenseless child.

 

[Emsmom1]

Shouldn't authority stand up to questioning?
Yes, Job...Where God and Satan play a game with the lives of Job and his family. Satan bets that Job will curse God to his face if Job's life is made unpleasant enough. So God kills Job's children and sends various torments upon him. Although Job curses the day he was born and says some nasty things about God, he doesn't curse God , so he is rewarded with a new, even better, children.
If you heard of someone killing someone's children to test their faith, would that be ok?

This is what I don't understand. For some reason, God gets a pass. If a person did some of this stuff, everyone would call it despicable.
I have logic and I have morals. Why shouldn't I be able to use them and why wouldn't God's actions hold up to those standards?

I'm with you here; the story of Job has always bothered me. It makes God seem capricious and cruel.

 

[solid_core]

I'm with you here; the story of Job has always bothered me. It makes God seem capricious and cruel.

Not every piece of ancient Jewish literature must be taken literally or as theologically right in every detail just because we have it in today's Bibles.

When Bible contains some strange places, I would go with the common sense and general knowledge of God as of the greatest being instead of some old, culturally distant, redacted and possibly misleading text.

 

[Randy B]

I'm with you here; the story of Job has always bothered me. It makes God seem capricious and cruel.

Thank you, Emsmom. It's mind-blowing to me that that anyone sees that as a reasonable way for God to behave.

Not every piece of ancient Jewish literature must be taken literally or as theologically right in every detail just because we have it in today's Bibles.

When Bible contains some strange places, I would go with the common sense and general knowledge of God as of the greatest being instead of some old, culturally distant, redacted and possibly misleading text.

It's interesting to me that you say it doesn't need to be seen as theologically right. I would that if God is all-powerful and His chosen way to reveal Himself to us was through the Bible, He would see to it that it stay theologically accurate over the years.
I get this approach, but how do you know when to interpret something literally and when it is a metaphor?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I'm not talking about boo boos and frustrations. I am talking about child rape. Let me know if you can't see a difference in the two.

Sorry, you're issue number 1 above is not worth addressing.

Actually they do address it.

And to name a few Biblical examples, I was thinking of some areas like the rape of Tamar (2 Samuel 13) and the rape of Dinah in Genesis 34. These situations are pretty much the same kind of thing except the victim is most likely older than what you imagine. But they got the same basic parallels, a rape happens and God does not send any angel or otherwise miraculously intervene to stop it....


Anyway your scenario construction I think is designed purely to pull at heart strings, possibly for some kind of rhetorical reasons. While sad, etc. I don't see why this is any more sad or traumatic then the other kinds of evil faced, except that you are trying to construct a wedge type issue/ situation. If you pay attention you see that believers from all ages have had to suffer all kinds of sufferings. And we are even called to it as far as the Great Commission goes, the word for witness, martyr has been equated with suffering when originally it just mean "to witness". The issue of suffering is hard, but it is not unreasonable compared to how Jesus has suffered for us.

1 Peter 4:12-13

12 Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 13 But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.

 

[Randy B]

Have you read the book Theodicy?

Its not the best way to try to figure the problem of evil out on public online forums where people are frequently using emotions or do not have any systematic answer. Its better to read more complex books regarding this topic. It needs more deep concepts than can be explained in short posts.

I have not read it, Solid Core, but I will check into it.

Furthermore, you make a good point. I'm just using the forum to see how other Christians reply to arguments my wife and I have (per her request).

 

[solid_core]

I have not read it, Solid Core, but I will check into it.

Furthermore, you make a good point. I'm just using the forum to see how other Christians reply to arguments my wife and I have (per her request).

Its fully online, but I prefer for such books to be read in print.

You can check it out, I hope you will like it:
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/17147/17147-h/17147-h.htm

I will appreciate your feedback if it will be useful to you.

 

[solid_core]

I get this approach, but how do you know when to interpret something literally and when it is a metaphor?

By using the common sense and our general knowledge of God as the greatest being, wise, loving and just.

If the Old Testament describes God as somebody who regrets, looses his temper and similarly, its simply a metaphor or an error in the text. The Old testament is a mix of theology and of Jewish history, culture and Israelo-centrism. Its sometimes difficult to distinguish what is what, therefore if there is some weird detail in the text, its better not to stumble upon it.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Admittedly, Philo, as a "degreed" philosopher, you have clearly spent more time on this than I have. If you had to nail me down to a type, I would lean toward Rule Utilitarianism. Admittedly, I have not spent a great deal of time on this. I do not claim to be an expert in this field.



I am in the process of evaluating these claims. Part of that is taking place as we speak.



Scientific Claims
Questionable Morals
Violence
Conflicting Claims (not small details, but big concepts)



The items you are referring to here are my current concerns when evaluating the Bible and the concepts/issues that I am exploring.

It's great that you're able to use big words; good for you, that's impressive. I am trying to have a layperson's conversation with easily understandable concepts and discussion. I realize that addressing these subjects can result in needing to touch on complex topics. However, I don't see a need to throw around a bunch of big words unnecessarily for whatever reasons (I won't speculate on what those may be).

It's not "using big words." It's called being educated, and this is the 'ground' that you've placed yourself upon when you decided to come here, Randy.

I'm not trying to insult you, but I can't help it if you take it as that. I'm not going to capitulate to the demands of all those who come here and proceed to tell me I somehow, after having done some academic work, need to "scale it down." I'm especially not going to scale it down where Christianity and philosophy are concerned, nor will I when I'm trying to get people to think more deeply than they typically do (or seemingly want to do). If anything, I'm here to get people (everyone really) to "scale it up." Ignorance time is over. And None of their lack of understanding or their grievances or their lack of will to be motivated to engage Christianity more deeply is ... my fault.

Do you want your questions answered? Do you actually want someone to help you? Or is this yet another skeptical ploy where an individual comes onto CF, thinking they have the upper hand over all Christians everywhere and attempt to bamboozle and flabbergast them?

For the moment, I'm going to assume that the above isn't your intention. But I better not find out that it is ...

 

[crossnote]

So your interpretation is to that because of a child's sin nature, which they are born into without choice because of Adam's first sin, it is ok for God to let children suffer?

We all suffer, but it's the final outcome that counts...

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
(Rom 8:18-22)

 

[solid_core]

How would a person get to the knowledge a god exists in the first place if the evidence come later?

If one of many evidence come later.

The difference I see between the circular argument and the backward compatibility is that the former is tied together while the latter is tied more loosly, the faith/trust/knowledge is based on complex group of evidence and then another one, that is compatible, is added to the group, later in time.

If somebody's faith in God is based solely on the Bible, "because the Bible says so", then its quite a narrow ideology. Because how can they verify that the Bible is true at least in its basic teachings? There is a need for some external sources and evidence (historical, philosophical, logical, personal, moral etc.)

 

[Job3315]

My loss of faith began with scientific, or historical, questions. Since then, though, many philosophical questions have risen that lead me to further question Christian faith. I believe the foremost of these is the question of theodicy.
If there is a loving, perfectly just, all-powerful God, why do bad things happen to good people? I am interested to hear how Christians on this forum address this.
My illustration is this:
In real life, I am the father of two girls, 6 and 8 years old. If I was sitting on one end of a room, with a gun in my hand, and someone was raping my daughter on the other end of the room, what kind of father would I be if I just sat there and watched and did nothing to stop it? I have a gun in my hand, I could do something to stop it, but for whatever reason, I chose not to. Judging by the lowliest human standards, in my opinion, I would not have met my duties as a father. If God is perfectly just and all-powerful, how can He stand by and watch children starve to death, be raped, and murdered?

The cause of evil in the world is sin; disconnection from God. The more I know God, the more I realize that He doesn't intervine/control what others do, but He does warn His children so we can protect ourselves. I've seen it over and over in my life, my family and friends. When something bad happens my first thoughts are: Who wasn't listening and who didn't speak? Where is the prophet from that area?

About your example, from my experience, if you are in that situation you missed God's warnings and you are just facing the consequences because God is always previous. God doesn't control humans, you can see it all over the Bible, He works with those who want to hear and obey.

This is a message I left another person explaining why bad things happen:

God blessed them (Adam and Eve) and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. (Govern it) Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground. Genesis 1:28

God gave earth to humans. He created earth for us and He wanted us to govern it. Adam and Eve had everything, but the devil tricked them into believing they weren't complete, so the devil stole the keys of the Kingdom of God (the authority), so then the devil became the god (little g) of this world and he has dominion over it until either one of two things happen: God returns or Christians realize who they are in Jesus and take possession of the world.

satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God. 2 Corinthians 4:4

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. Ephesians 2:1-2

For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. Romans 8:20-21

Creation hopes we will realize who we are in Christ. Jesus said, as He is, so are we. He also said the same miracles He performed, we will be able to do if we believe in Him. We are just so stuck in religion that we don't step out of our comfort zone.

The devil led him (Jesus) up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. If you worship me, it will all be yours." Luke 4:5-7

But Jesus refused to worship the devil because He knew what He was going to do, He was going to hand the worlds dominion back to the Father. That's why Jesus (who is a Spirit-The Word) had to come in human form, because only a human could beat the devil because the earth was supposed to be governed by humans. Jesus died, went to hell and conquered death. Now every person can come to the Father through Jesus. The Bible says, Jesus is the head of the church (Christians), we are His body. So we are supposed to learn to hear Him and obey. The Bible also says the last enemy to be destroyed is death (1 Corinthians 15:26) so eventually, as we continue to grow in Christ, we will be able to revive the dead just as He did.

Why is God not stopping evil? Because we are supposed to dominate it, He already did it through Jesus, now we are supposed to be able to do it through Jesus, people are scared to step out in faith, but we are supposed to do the same things Jesus did. Many people are stuck in religion, waiting to be saved, waiting to become sons and daughters, waiting for God to subdue the earth, but God is saying, you are now a son through Jesus, go and do as Jesus did. We are supposed to destroy the works of the devil through Jesus. We are baptized in Jesus.

The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. John 3:8

Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? Romans 6:3

People are born with defects because someone hasn't taken dominion over that area; either before the birth or after. If you read the New Testament, Jesus healed everyone and He commanded the disciples to do the same thing. God is not the creator of evil. Eating Knowledge from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (an actual fruit) caused mankind to spiritually die. God didn't bring evil to the earth, we did (Adam and Eve), God created a solution.

Watch videos of Dan Mohler. He became a pillar in my spiritual walk. He inspired me to believe in Jesus and in what God says about us. His testimonies are amazing!

 

[Renata8]

Bad things happen to good people because life itself is a process, every challenge, shortcoming, loss, trial will lead us to our true destiny in the end. Grapes get crushed to make fine wine, so do flowers to make perfumes. When you loose something in life it’s because you’re meant for something else, something bigger, something better. Sometimes your blessings may look like they’re late but God know they’re right on time.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

We only see the surface of reality.

 

[eleos1954]

He forbids you for sending someone to jail for someone else's crime, but it's ok for God to punish someone their father's sins? How does that work?

“Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;” Exodus 20:5 (KJV 1900)

sin in the world is devastating in many ways. Sometimes God intervenes sometimes He does not .... but one must understand He knows everything that is going on and although we may not understand, we know He works everything to the good (whereas we do not) .... He does not cause the atrocities ... they are the effects from sin.

The truth of Romans 8:28 reminds us that although sin and Satan are powerful, God is more powerful; He is able to redeem and restore anything for good. All things may not be good, but God can and will use all things for good.

The innocents? Do not forget He has the power of redemption and resurrection. The ultimate enemy to be destroyed is death ... and when Jesus returns all of the atrocities will end .... including death itself ... and this will be for eternity. AMEN!

He sent Jesus ... His only begotten son .... to atone for every sin (past, present & future).

I have no doubt the innocents will be redeemed and be among those in the 1st resurrection.

Living in this world of sin is difficult .... seeing the atrocities that go on ... but blame God for them? Why doesn't God do something about it? HE HAS my friend and this was accomplished through Christ. There are more yet to be saved .... and the atrocities (from sin in the world) will continue until there is not one human being left that can not be saved (for eternity).

We tend to evaluate things according to what we see ... rather that according to things not seen. What are all the wonderful things God is doing that we don't see or give Him credit for ... or things He is doing that we don't know about? Did not Jesus (who is God) suffer and lay down His life for the whole of mankind? Yes He did. God took his own medicine (so to speak).

2nd Peter 3:9
Contemporary English Version
The Lord isn't slow about keeping his promises, as some people think he is. In fact, God is patient, because he wants everyone to turn from sin and no one to be lost. (not one)

The Bible is also clear that children are never punished for the sins of their parents:

• "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin." (Deuteronomy 24:16)
• "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself. (Ezekiel 18:20)

He forbids you for sending someone to jail for someone else's crime, but it's ok for God to punish someone their father's sins? How does that work?

Please revisit the entire passage ...

The context of the verse shows that God does not visit, "the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations" without good cause. The justified reason for God's punishment is that those children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren hate God and follow their fathers into idolatry. In contrast, the same passage explains that those who follow God and His commandments will be loved by Him, despite the sins of their fathers. You misunderstand ... God does not punish the innocent, including the children of sinners.

 

[eleos1954]

My loss of faith began with scientific, or historical, questions. Since then, though, many philosophical questions have risen that lead me to further question Christian faith. I believe the foremost of these is the question of theodicy.
If there is a loving, perfectly just, all-powerful God, why do bad things happen to good people? I am interested to hear how Christians on this forum address this.
My illustration is this:
In real life, I am the father of two girls, 6 and 8 years old. If I was sitting on one end of a room, with a gun in my hand, and someone was raping my daughter on the other end of the room, what kind of father would I be if I just sat there and watched and did nothing to stop it? I have a gun in my hand, I could do something to stop it, but for whatever reason, I chose not to. Judging by the lowliest human standards, in my opinion, I would not have met my duties as a father. If God is perfectly just and all-powerful, how can He stand by and watch children starve to death, be raped, and murdered?

How was God able to send His only begotten son Jesus .... to suffer on the behalf of all of mankind .... taking upon Himself all the sins of humanity (past, present & future) .... yet without sin himself? How could he stand by and watch that? Why did Jesus lay down His life for mankind?

I could do something to stop it, but for whatever reason,
I chose not to

The reason matters.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Personally, I am not smart enough to be God’s Critic.If you wish to discover the reason that God allows terrible things to happen, the Book Of Job was written just for you.....To make a long story short—The Story Of Job reveals that God is Sovereign, He will do as He pleases,He owes no apologies to anybody, and “HE” has a question for us——Where were “ WE” when He created the Earth and hung the stars? Who is man to question the Creator of the Universe?
God never really answers the question . He more or less tells us it is none of our business. “ Will not the Creator Of the Universe do What is Just?” Mere Humans have no right to question God.It is “ our” job to shut up and Trust Him...
As for the pain that Jesus endured? The Bible says that it gave God Pleasure to sacrifice His Son and that Jesus endured the shame of the Cross for the Promise That He knew would be honored.God and Jesus did what they did out of love for Sinful Mankind , While “were yet still sinners” and wanted Nothing to do with Him....
Until the Day comes when ALL questions will be answered and most likely the results will show that God was incredibly wise and we were incredibly ignorant, let’s give God the benefit of the doubt, thanking for His Love and thanking Him for His Grace....

 

[Bobber]

My loss of faith began with scientific, or historical, questions. Since then, though, many philosophical questions have risen that lead me to further question Christian faith. I believe the foremost of these is the question of theodicy.

First let me say I've noticed a certain degree of your dialogue here is with people who have a Calvinistic view of scripture, as in everything, ever detail of what occurs on the earth is God's plan. I don't believe that neither does a major portion of Christendom believe that either. And I'd certainly hope your thread doesn't become a Calvinism/Non Calvinism thread.

But to answer your central question which putting it in short is why does God allow evil to exist. How could he allow such horrendous things to take place without stopping them? I'd suggest there's things of a bigger picture we need to consider. When we see it we can at least somewhat understand. What do we know? We know that certain things will be allowed, YES but only for a period of time. I won't get into any super great detail but scripture says man will have a period of time when we could say he's in charge. But in Revelation the end of the story we see God changes all that. In Matt 8:29 we see even demons made statements to Jesus...

"What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?"

Before the time? YES. So we see a big change will come about where evil will be judged and be no more. And God will wipe away all the tears from our eyes! Rev 21:4 So why the space or the period of time to begin with? To allow certain things in the bigger picture of things that needed to be allowed to play out for the reason that in the eternities of all eternities in all the time future (in whatever way we can understand forever) there will never be a time where spirit beings will be able to say that God didn't even allow mankind to be separate from him (LIFE) to see what they could do in ruling themselves.

Spiritual death and it's fruit even though God wasn't overjoyed in having to allow it a space (about 6000 years) to demonstrate what comes from it when the question is asked though 1 million or 10 million years in the future God will always be able to point to what then will be considered a small sliver of time our 6000 years and point to it on the shelf and say something like , "See there! I allowed an existence outside of my LIFE to be demonstrated and be played out!" I think God will say it didn't bring him any joy to have to allow it but for the bigger picture of things because men chose DEATH he deemed the play out of it therefore necessary. If God didn't allow it the question of it in the eternities of all eternities would never have been settled.

Now in regard to what you said, children starving hurt and killed. Yes every time that's happened it's broke the heart of God. You must know this however that the dying of innocents as painful and as sorrowful as God has seen it there lives didn't end when leaving the earth. The went to heavenly bliss, beauty and paradise forever and so they always shall be. In any way we can say their lives ended in truth their lives just began.