Islam The worth of a woman

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

Again you are not thinking like a Christian on this one but rather in quite a secular way. A man or womans hope is not in the children they are able to produce but rather in Jesus Christ and eternal life with God. In my experience women talk more and have more friends but whether or not that equates to superior social skills is highly debatable and is irrelevant to the question of worth which is defined by a Created dignity, by redemption from sin and by a relationship and hope in the Divine.

But as to how a Muslim will answer your claims is for a Muslim to answer. My suspicion is that both arguments would be regarded as nonsence because they have nothing to do with what God says.

Those were just few examples.

In a very similar way, Muslims will explain away everything about female low class in Islam. No difference.

 

[mindlight]

Those were just few examples.

In a very similar way, Muslims will explain away everything about female low class in Islam. No difference.

You seem to have responded to an answer I gave to someone else but as if it were your own post.

But assuming you were talking about our conversation answer me this:

Where in the Quran is the equality of worth of a male and female demonstrated?

I gave you three examples of where it is demonstrated in scripture:
1) Both created in the Image of God
2) Both redeemed with equal effect by the cross
3) Both share in the same hope of an eternal life with God that does not imply a continued subjugation of women in heaven also.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

You seem to have responded to an answer I gave to someone else but as if it were your own post.

But assuming you were talking about our conversation answer me this:

Where in the Quran is the equality of worth of a male and female demonstrated?

I gave you three examples of where it is demonstrated in scripture:
1) Both created in the Image of God
2) Both redeemed with equal effect by the cross
3) Both share in the same hope of an eternal life with God that does not imply a continued subjugation of women in heaven also.

Yes, I quoted wrong post, my mistake.

I don't care about Islam. I'm a former Muslim. But to say that Judeo-Christianity is better in this matter is a big error. It's same or worse.

 

[mindlight]

Yes, I quoted wrong post, my mistake.

I don't care about Islam. I'm a former Muslim. But to say that Judeo-Christianity is better in this matter is a big error. It's same or worse.

You are created in the likeness of God so who can criticise your worth in terms of where you come from. As a child of the Divine you were born with worth. No Muslim makes this claim.

You are free from sin by virtue of your faith in Christ and repentance of sin and cannot be accused in any lasting way. You have no eternal sentence of damnation hanging over you. What Muslim can say the same with total assurance?!

You have the hope of eternal life and one in which the freedom, grace and mercy you have already begun to experience shall be lived in all its fullness. What Muslim can speak of this present experience of a future hope?

Big difference, you have a worth you know is real while a Muslim whether male or female has no such assurance.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

You are created in the likeness of God so who can criticise your worth in terms of where you come from. As a child of the Divine you were born with worth. No Muslim makes this claim.

You are free from sin by virtue of your faith in Christ and repentance of sin and cannot be accused in any lasting way. You have no eternal sentence of damnation hanging over you. What Muslim can say the same with total assurance?!

You have the hope of eternal life and one in which the freedom, grace and mercy you have already begun to experience shall be lived in all its fullness. What Muslim can speak of this present experience of a future hope?

Big difference, you have a worth you know is real while a Muslim whether male or female has no such assurance.

It's what you say. Bible says women are low low class

 

[Muslim-UK]

So the man provides and the woman can spend her money on frivolous shopping or on charity for failed males. The man is responsible for "women without men" and men must fend for themselves. This may well be an example of where roles defines a true sense of the worth of the male and the female.

Implicit in this is that a womans labour is not worth as much as a mans and that she is less capable of looking after herself and indeed expected to be a housewife and mother before all else. This may of course be reality in many Muslim countries lacking welfare states and opportunities for female employment but it is not the reality in the Western world. Indeed a major reason why people from Middle Eastern countries often do so badly in school and are less likely to find work is because women are not expected to work. But being immigrants this often means they have no opportunities to learn the language and culture they have moved to. They have lots of babies and hang out with other Muslim women thus perpetuating the problems they have with learning the language. They then bring up children with an inadequate comprehension of the language of their host cultures. The net result is the next generation ends up being as handicapped as the previous one. Thus they end up being worse mothers than if they had more exposure to the language and culture of their host countries. This verse also dates and contextualises Islam to a certain 7th century Arab culture where such a gender differentiation of responsibility would have made more sense. Contrast this with the wise woman described in Proverbs who both works , keeps a home gives to the needy, is a respected advisor and wise woman and is a supportive wife.

You seem to be mixing culture with religion. How is what is quoted from Proverbs, (the writings in part of Prophet Solomon, who the Bible says had 700 wives and 300 female slaves) any different to the rights and responsibilities of a Muslim woman?

What the sura says is this: And if there are not two men [available], then a man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses - so that if one of the women errs, then the other can remind her.

The assumption here is that the woman is more likely to make a mistake with her testimony than a man is. That might well be true in situations where women are not properly educated and where their opportunities for intellectual stimulation are mainly other women in a similar situation but in the current age it seems a very dated perspective and one which cannot be contextualised in the West.

Women can be forgetful during the period of menstruation Brain Fog: Is It PMS or Something More Serious? and when pregnant due to Iron levels being depleted. The verse is not belittling women in any way.

What the sura says is this:
Divorced women remain in waiting for three periods, and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allah has created in their wombs if they believe in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have more right to take them back in this [period] if they want reconciliation. And due to the wives is similar to what is expected of them, according to what is reasonable. But the men have a degree over them [in responsibility and authority]. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.

The impression given is that a man can divorce his wife quite easily and it is his choice if he takes his wife back or not. Such is the assumed economic disadvantage of the woman that if the woman is divorced she is effectively passed to another man, whether her father or brother who is then responsible for her upkeep. The world of Muslim marriage is very much a mans world where divorce is initiated and paid for by men and women are really pawns in the game. In the West most divorces are initiated by women for what are mainly dubious reasons (from a Christian point of view). But it is clear power is more equally distributed in such destructive decisions dissolving marriages and breaking up families. Jesus was clear that divorce was a problem and given to mankind only because their hearts were hard. He preached more mercy, forgiveness and healing than male rights to throw away the woman who burnt the family meal!

Your impression is misplaced. Read the verse carefully .. If the Woman is with child, then the man can 'man up' take responsibility and cancel the divorce, thereby doing the right thing.

Actually that was someone elses list and commentary. But the value of ritual cleaning is not so clear in the modern context.

ok apologies. All Prophets taught cleanliness is half of the religion. Ritual cleaning 'Wudu' is well documented with hundreds of websites explaining the importance of it. Common sense dictates you wouldn't go to visit the President or Queen unless you were clean and wearing suitable clothing. How much more so when you stand before GOD 5 times a day to offer prayers.

Well that is one place a Muslim well be able to critique Western culture with some weight. Adultery and extra marital sex being endemic and being a major factor in marriage instability and divorce also. However it is one thing to be chaste and modest and another to build walls between the sexes that damage the connections between the genders. We have had various incidents in German swimming pools of immigrant young men from such cultures being clearly incapable of handling the sight of a woman in a bikini and of course the New Years Eves incidents in Koln and Hamburg while distinctly non-Islamic were also a symptom of a culture where women are an obsession of young males made all the stronger by a complete lack of experience. The result these men denigrated women and showed no respect for their worth as people.

Nothing to do with religion. The news just shows young clean shaven men, many with previous convictions for crimes flouting the Law of the land. No relevance to this thread.

Granted this is not commonplace. But it seems to give licence to rich men to acquire extra wives when they get bored with the older ones. Also while a situation of continual warfare might well create an imbalance between the numbers of men and women in a world at peace polytheism seems only to diminish the worth of a woman. Islam has it structured so it is the man that is responsible and must pay. But in the Western world it is often the case that the woman earns far more than the man. Why can a man have many wives but a woman only one husband? The Muslim answer seems to be an expectation that the man will be the richer and more successful one and indeed explains why many Muslim women struggle to find work comparable or better than their husbands or are often in the Western world at the bottom of the pay scale anway. One man - one woman is an obvious answer and implies an equality between the sexes.

All commandments from GOD can be ignored, bent and abused. Rich men are often ungodly and seek only to fulfil their own worldly desires. again this has no bearing on the Religion, as during the lifetime of the Prophet pbuh it was mainly widowed women who became second and third wives etc.

The bible describes angels in both male and female form but does not consider sexual relations to be a necessary feature of the heavenly realm.

The Qur'an doesn't mention Angels having sex either.

The joy and intimacy of the Divine presence make sex irrelevant. Elsewhere the Koran speaks of a warrior martyrs reward in terms of female virgins. But since we are who are made male and female will one day be like the angels the idea of male and female angels is hardly problematic for a Christian. The plain fact is this verse and others speaks in a harsh male mocking voice that disputes anything like a powerful or significant female presence in heaven. Women are there to service worthy male warriors and like 7th century Arab culture under Allah men and male angels rule the roost.

It is a simple fact of life that men think of sex a lot, some much more than others, but in any case it features heavily. I don't know what the NT says, but the Final Messenger of GOD made it clear we would be with our loved ones in Paradise. Christians make out sex is unimportant yet scandal after scandal from MegaChurch Pastors, Gay Clergy to 'problems' within the Catholic Church show otherwise.

Not sure how you consider this a defence of your argument:
4:24 says:
And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.

Basically you can take another mans wife in combat. How is that honouring marriage.
Also you can have sex with those female slaves that you own as possessions:

You can marry women whose husbands have been killed or those that fled the battlefield. The rules for the dowry were different. You are looking back at the 7th Century with 21st Century standards. Women would willingly, happily marry men from the conquering force, especially given they had their rights protected. World History shows women would accompany their menfolk into wars fully prepared to be looked after the opposing force if things went badly during the foray, either as marriageable women or captives to be sold later.

In the age of drones and mechanised infantry where most are killed at a distance rather than in hand to hand combat this definition of the man as the obligatory soldier and the woman as the occasional soldier seems dated.

Muslim women did and still do fight in combat. (They fly planes too)

There is a differentiation of roles in Christianity also. But the implication of male control and responsibility in Islam is a dampener on the freedom of women here. Treating women properly is fine and also urged on Christians but on occasions' this coddling can also be demeaning implying that they are really not as a capable and of lesser worth

You are trying to blur the lines between Christianity and Secularism. They are not the same thing. There is no canonised Gospel written by a woman, there has never been a female Pope. Saul made it clear a husband was the head of a woman, and she in turn should remain silent in Church. Christian women were historically responsible for running the home and raises children. Christianity also teaches childbirth pains are because women are responsible for man's fall from grace. When the Church was separated from the State, the decline of Christianity followed at an alarming pace. Allowing women to beautify themselves and go out into the workplace might seem all well and good, but how does it stand with GOD, and that's what really matters after all. Success and standing isn't measured by how liberal and open a people have become, but rather how GOD fearing and obedient to his Commandments they are. The devils only job is to make sure you enter hell by disobeying GOD, and he has had thousands of years of practice and knows exactly how to lead people astray.

This only makes sense in the context of a Western education system devoid of true spirituality and Christian learning. It is happening in a context where secularisation and liberal theologians have hijacked and distorted the Christian message. But there is nothing intelligent about a woman accepting a religion that says you are of less worth than a man.

As I have shown women and not turning back to a Religion where they 'worth' less than a man, rather they are addressing that deep internal desire to acknowledge and obey the Creator.

 

[Blade]

Well as much as I would agree but.. where is it written God made man and women equal? Said not good for man to be alone. I will make him a helper. The two shall leave their parents and become one. See we miss Him when we make anything about US. Like me and my wife. I know what is written. But my wife? I think of her like Christ does the Church. I am last.. she comes 1st. Yet she does the same. We never have to say equal.. were not. We are ONE. Do you see?

So Muslims and again as much as I would agree but how a Muslim treats a woman is not what I look at. For to help them treat woman better the same...so what? Nothing would have changed. They would still be lost forever. WOW they treated women better.. Good? It still has no effect on ever lasting life.

We are the servants to all. If my wife wanted to be known as say better then me. Praise God she will be. I will become last so she can be 1st.. or any other.

I truly understand what you say..and even want. Its awful to see such things.. to go deeper.. to have a kid as a wife.. on and on. But the main thing is.. do they know JESUS as lord?

 

[withwonderingawe]

2:223 Yes men and women are told to lower their gaze, this is all part of being modest, and to guard against illegal sexual intercourse, both adultery and outside of marriage.

In the western world a person who does not look you in the eye is untrustworthy, for the eye is the light of the body. A parent will tell his child 'look at me while I'm talking to you', he wants to make sure the child is actually listening. When questioned by a policeman if a person looks down at the ground it will be assumed that he is lying.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Thus the verse clearly lays down the law that one is allowed to have sexual relation with one’s slave-girl as with one’s wife, the basis being possession and not marriage. If marriage had been the condition, the slave-girl also would have been included among the wives, and there was no need to mention them separately.

My daughter in law is Filipino her very good friend was enticed by money to go to Saudi Arabia and work for two years as a domestic. She could earn enough to buy a house for her family when she returned. A few days before she was to go home she texted my daughter in law all excited and happy to leave but she never made it home. She was raped and strangled along with three other Christian women that night, they believe she had been sexually molested the whole time she was there. She had 6 children and a husband waiting for her, and now they only have pain. No one will ever be held responsible for this because she will be thought of being responsible, she must have enticed him and a Muslim man is not responsible for his actions. bunch of sick *#*#

 

[mindlight]

It's what you say. Bible says women are low low class

Where?

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

Where?

On its pages

 

[-Hannah-]

Mindlight, It seems like you are the one who is giving yourself the best answers.

In Christianity, there's a difference between what was written as a cultural trace of a certain time and what are the guide lines, God's will, the doctrinal belief system. Many christians disagree with each other, even in the same church people will have different views. The sense of community is crucial, it's very important, but God relates to each one of us in an individual way too; each one has their own path, their own process, their own choices, the most important things will happen internally, between God and the seeker. When I tried to understand muslims, I end up realizing that the main difference is that the individual, in order to obey his God, must control a myriad of external factors; sometimes, while controlling those external factors, the end justifies the means, even if compassion and empathy have to be sacrificed. I see that some muslims take their religion in an individual way, going through their own process, realizing, for instance, that a devoted woman deserves a devoted husband, who sees his wife as his partner, who works as hard as him for their family well-being. But the doctrinal axiom is that two women equal one man, women are man's property. A woman's failure will be a disgrace for her man's honor, so he owes to control her.
Some christians are sexists, others aren't, but there's no doctrine regarding this. It is my belief that God created us to His own image, that a woman and a man together are the image of God, it's that union that celebrates the creation of Humankind to God's image. Each part is as important as the other one. They still have different roles, but they both need each-other equally. Female and male are here to fulfill each other. It's a disgrace that such a beautiful creation has been turned into a power struggle. Maybe that's why God took sometime before creating the woman, so man could feel alone and value her existence as much as his own.

 

[mindlight]

You seem to be mixing culture with religion. How is what is quoted from Proverbs, (the writings in part of Prophet Solomon, who the Bible says had 700 wives and 300 female slaves) any different to the rights and responsibilities of a Muslim woman?

The quote from Proverbs is attributed to King Lemuel and is described as an oracle he got from his mother. Solomon had both a superior knowledge of women due to the sheer volume and diversity of his experience and his wisdom but so also demonstrated a worldliness in this area which led him astray. Neither slavery nor Polygamy was a feature of the world that God created they are symptoms of sin and debt and a fallen society. Solomon is both the best and worst of examples when it comes to understanding women. But a major difference between the noble wife of Proverbs and the Muslim woman is the right and opportunity to provide for her family. The husband in these verses is not providing he is discussing / doing politics and theology with the elders of the land. These verses are both a challenge to Islam and to a secular society that values business rather than good government and obedience to God above all else.

Women can be forgetful during the period of menstruation Brain Fog: Is It PMS or Something More Serious? and when pregnant due to Iron levels being depleted. The verse is not belittling women in any way.

Men can allow bloodlust, lust, anger, pride, greed or fear to cloud their judgment, but it is the woman who is expected to be controlled by her hormones rather than the man in Islam. With some women I grant you menstruation is overwhelming to the point where their judgment is lost. This is especially so in societies where women are oppressed and deprived of educational advantages. In such societies it seems obvious that a womans judgment is flawed and that a female president would push the red button starting a nuclear war just cause she was having her period. In situations where men take responsibility for their outbursts and protect them from the consequences of such there is little incentive to learn self control and to find the quiet still voice of Gods wisdom in the storm of inner passions that threaten to drown it out. But the distinct advantage of the biblical view is that the bible allows for a wise woman who is not so controlled while the Koran lays a blanket condemnation on all women because some cannot be trusted.

Your impression is misplaced. Read the verse carefully .. If the Woman is with child, then the man can 'man up' take responsibility and cancel the divorce, thereby doing the right thing.

The man can divorce a woman on a whim in Islam but if she is with his child he can choose to take her back. In this situation the man has all the power and his choice also is guided by his own self interest rather than that of the woman. Divorce is always ugly and is a failure born of both parties but this implies that it is always the man that gets to create or clean up the mess.

Nothing to do with religion. The news just shows young clean shaven men, many with previous convictions for crimes flouting the Law of the land. No relevance to this thread.

The relevance is not so much in what Islam prescribes as what it results in. The strict division of male and female and the hiding of women behind burkhas and walls means that a large underclass of unemployed young men from failed Muslim states really have no clue about how to behave around women.

All commandments from GOD can be ignored, bent and abused. Rich men are often ungodly and seek only to fulfil their own worldly desires. again this has no bearing on the Religion, as during the lifetime of the Prophet pbuh it was mainly widowed women who became second and third wives etc.

Mainly but not exclusively and demonstrates the continual wars that characterised the early Muslim period. this is a religion born in violence and with provisions for the consequences of that violence built into it. In the modern era wars , outside the continual conflicts of the Muslim world ((e.g. Iraq , Syria, Yemen), are not as common and it is only a rich man who can afford to have multiple wives. But even president Trump who has had multiple wives and "concubines" and a reputation for denigrating women usually does his wives one at a time.

The Qur'an doesn't mention Angels having sex either.

It is a simple fact of life that men think of sex a lot, some much more than others, but in any case it features heavily. I don't know what the NT says, but the Final Messenger of GOD made it clear we would be with our loved ones in Paradise. Christians make out sex is unimportant yet scandal after scandal from MegaChurch Pastors, Gay Clergy to 'problems' within the Catholic Church show otherwise.

I am not going to excuse the examples of fallen pastors and priests so gleefully reported by a secular media nor indeed hypocrisy within the church. We are all sinners and if there were not examples of such sin amongst the 2 billion plus Christians in the world I would be very surprised. Yes men do think about sex a lot. But this craving for biological release, relationship and intimacy is something they will not need in heaven. It says a lot about the Muslim understanding of God that they think a man would need to have sex in heaven. The intense joy and intimacy of Gods presence is all sufficient and islam appears to be suggesting that it is not enough. The implicit blasphemy there is that God will not change us and cannot satisfy a mans need , but rather only his creature (a woman) can.

You can marry women whose husbands have been killed or those that fled the battlefield. The rules for the dowry were different. You are looking back at the 7th Century with 21st Century standards. Women would willingly, happily marry men from the conquering force, especially given they had their rights protected. World History shows women would accompany their menfolk into wars fully prepared to be looked after the opposing force if things went badly during the foray, either as marriageable women or captives to be sold later.

Are you really suggesting that these examples are only from the 7th century!!. The Islamic State Caliphate, the Taliban or Boko Haram apply these principles today. Basically the assumption here is that a woman is a prize resulting from conquest. The "cowards" wife can be taken by another cause he preferred to be with her rather than kill others in the interminable and pointless infighting of the Muslim world. The numbers of Syrian refugee young men who have fled conscription speaks for itself. Again a captive woman can be owned like some commodity and her worth is denigrated by these rules even if her worldly situation in violent situations is protected by them

You are trying to blur the lines between Christianity and Secularism. They are not the same thing. There is no canonised Gospel written by a woman, there has never been a female Pope. Saul made it clear a husband was the head of a woman, and she in turn should remain silent in Church.

This is true and I accept that ultimate leadership of the church is male as Christ himself came as a man. It is a feature of our fallen world that men will generally lead until the end. This must be so in the church but less so in a political world. But even there the presence of female leaders conceals a male dominated cabal of hidden power brokers. But understanding the difference between male headship and Muslim dominance is the key here. The Christian yoke is easy and its burdens are light and the exception is allowed for. Sometimes as in the case of the prophetess Deborah it is the woman that is called to lead.

Christian women were historically responsible for running the home and raises children.

The same oppressions that have characterised the world since the fall were also there in the Christian world. The difference between the Christian and Muslim world is the extent to which female freedoms have been realised and their potential released. It remains an honourable calling to be a wife and a mother but a woman can also do other things not permitted her in the Muslim world.

Christianity also teaches childbirth pains are because women are responsible for man's fall from grace.

True, but man is also responsible and has his own punishment.

When the Church was separated from the State, the decline of Christianity followed at an alarming pace.

A great many cultures never saw a separation of church and state. Christianity globally has never been stronger and has been growing non stop for 2000 years. It is weak in the Middle east where Islamist genocides have provoked mass emigration. In the West an apparent decline in the numbers of cultural Christians misreported in the secular media and misunderstood by secular pollsters conceals the underlying health of the true church. If Christians should lose control of the Wests political structures that would be a serious problem however given the Wests relative power and that they are very often all that holds the forces of evil at bay.

Allowing women to beautify themselves and go out into the workplace might seem all well and good, but how does it stand with GOD, and that's what really matters after all. Success and standing isn't measured by how liberal and open a people have become, but rather how GOD fearing and obedient to his Commandments they are. The devils only job is to make sure you enter hell by disobeying GOD, and he has had thousands of years of practice and knows exactly how to lead people astray.

As I have shown women and not turning back to a Religion where they 'worth' less than a man, rather they are addressing that deep internal desire to acknowledge and obey the Creator.

God comes first and the freedom of relationship we can have with him is the thing we should celebrate above all else. But as Proverbs 31 indicates a female business woman and family provider is hardly a threat to the religious order, indeed she can supply financial support for it. Why should God not delight in the hopes and dreams of women and give them the freedom to explore those when they delight themselves in Him. Those who hold women behind walls and Burkhas may be nothing better than jailers who are in fact also prisoners of the same fortifications that they inhabit.

 

[mindlight]

Mindlight, It seems like you are the one who is giving yourself the best answers.

In Christianity, there's a difference between what was written as a cultural trace of a certain time and what are the guide lines, God's will, the doctrinal belief system. Many christians disagree with each other, even in the same church people will have different views. The sense of community is crucial, it's very important, but God relates to each one of us in an individual way too; each one has their own path, their own process, their own choices, the most important things will happen internally, between God and the seeker. When I tried to understand muslims, I end up realizing that the main difference is that the individual, in order to obey his God, must control a myriad of external factors; sometimes, while controlling those external factors, the end justifies the means, even if compassion and empathy have to be sacrificed. I see that some muslims take their religion in an individual way, going through their own process, realizing, for instance, that a devoted woman deserves a devoted husband, who sees his wife as his partner, who works as hard as him for their family well-being. But the doctrinal axiom is that two women equal one man, women are man's property. A woman's failure will be a disgrace for her man's honor, so he owes to control her.
Some christians are sexists, others aren't, but there's no doctrine regarding this. It is my belief that God created us to His own image, that a woman and a man together are the image of God, it's that union that celebrates the creation of Humankind to God's image. Each part is as important as the other one. They still have different roles, but they both need each-other equally. Female and male are here to fulfill each other. It's a disgrace that such a beautiful creation has been turned into a power struggle. Maybe that's why God took sometime before creating the woman, so man could feel alone and value her existence as much as his own.

Most of your post I agree with. The existential lens you see Christians AND Muslims with borders on moral relativism but was interesting to read.

We may have a different understanding of scriptural authority and of how it was inspired in multiple cultures over 1500 years for instance and so does not represent a single cultural trace but rather a body of teachings that relevantly speaks to all cultures and times.

I agree that the essential oneness of male and female even with their different roles is both a witness to God and his image in us and also that the power struggle that resulted from the fall is not Gods original intent for the male female relationship. We do not yet live in an ideal and redeemed world and so to some extent male dominance will persist for good and for ill until the end. But while I agree with male leadership what I see in the Muslim world is oppressive to women to a degree not seen in the Christian world and indeed it diminishes the perceived worth of a woman by the external factors it imposes on her.

 

[Muslim-UK]

Well as much as I would agree but.. where is it written God made man and women equal? Said not good for man to be alone. I will make him a helper. The two shall leave their parents and become one. See we miss Him when we make anything about US. Like me and my wife. I know what is written. But my wife? I think of her like Christ does the Church. I am last.. she comes 1st. Yet she does the same. We never have to say equal.. were not. We are ONE. Do you see?

It's the same in Islam:

"They (your wives) are your garment and you are a garment for them" Qur'an 2:187

This verse of the Quran reveals the basic purpose and concept of marriage in Islam. Islam enjoins that a wife and husband should have the most intimate and loving relationship. Each should cover, protect, and safeguard the interests of the other partner. This profound and revolutionary verse has the following 5 practical implications:

1- The fact that man and woman are considered garments to each other suggests that both have an equal status in sharing the responsibilities of marriage.

2- As the garment covers the body in such a way that there is nothing between the garment and the body, the husband and wife should be so close and intimate to each other that there should be no secrets between them. Both confide fully in each other and share their joys and sorrows without any hesitation.

3- The task of the garment is to protect the body from outside dangers. The husband and wife accordingly protect each other from all external dangers and work together to build a home and a tranquil refuge from the harshness of daily life.

4- A garment not only covers the body but also gives it beauty and grace. Similarly, husband and wife should not only cover and shield each other from external worries, temptations, abuses....etc., but should do so with grace and dignity.

5- No one likes to live without clothes, hence men and women should aspire to get married and serve as garments to each other.

It is interesting to note how this verse played a major role in the journey of a British economist and teacher, Kieren Ashorth to Islam (now known as Yusuf Abdullah):

"Very often in my journey to Islam, I was faced with intellectual and moral dilemmas. Was Islam not supposed to be cruel to women, roughly half of the world's population? One day, I was reading a translation of the Quran and came across a passage in which it described 'a wife as a garment for her husband and a husband as a garment for his wife.' What beauty and what a sublime description!"

So Muslims and again as much as I would agree but how a Muslim treats a woman is not what I look at. For to help them treat woman better the same...so what? Nothing would have changed. They would still be lost forever. WOW they treated women better.. Good? It still has no effect on ever lasting life.

Those who accept all previous Messengers, Scriptures and confess GOD Alone is worthy of worship have noting to fear in the hereafter.

I truly understand what you say..and even want. Its awful to see such things.. to go deeper.. to have a kid as a wife.. on and on. But the main thing is.. do they know JESUS as lord?

Muslims know Jesus pbuh. We follow the Jesus who taught pure Monotheism. We follow what was taught just like his family understood it; we don't follow the corrupted version of Jesus presented by the Romans. For us he was the Messiah, born of a virgin, he did miracles and wonders by the permission of GOD, he submitted his will to GOD alone and followed the Torah. He came to rebuke the ruling class within Judaism and to bring them back to the straight path, leaving aside their man made rules, regulations and over inflated ceremonial rituals.

 

[Muslim-UK]

In the western world a person who does not look you in the eye is untrustworthy, for the eye is the light of the body. A parent will tell his child 'look at me while I'm talking to you', he wants to make sure the child is actually listening. When questioned by a policeman if a person looks down at the ground it will be assumed that he is lying.

I should be clear. There's nothing in Islam that forbids the sexes from making eye contact, rather we are instructed to lower our gaze and not stare. Autistic people tend not to make eye contact, and am sure they're not viewed as being untrustworthy, well at least I hope not. The sexes are even permitted to look at a handsome/beautiful person and praise GOD for blessing that person with beauty. Islam is a religion that takes the middle path, a religion of ease. The commandments might seem petty and outdated, but are designed to safeguard society.

 

[-Hannah-]

We may have a different understanding of scriptural authority and of how it was inspired in multiple cultures over 1500 years for instance and so does not represent a single cultural trace but rather a body of teachings that relevantly speaks to all cultures and times.

I'm trapped in my poor English skills, hence my limited ability to fully express a point as close to my thinking as possible. I do agree with you; I'm still struggling with what I wanted to say, but it's not opposite to what you wrote, since it is also my belief.

Bill Warner has been my source of knowledge, regarding muslim doctrine.
I agree with male leadership too. We were thought to choose the hard way, where Man grow to be trustworthy and insightful; but 'leadership' can also be achieved by manipulating your surroundings so anyone is higher nor more important than you and your word. Islam has been the antagonist of judeo-christian.

I believe in evil. For as much as I pursue reasoning behind a concept, some subjects will have its roots in evil and its attempt to destroy God's creation and plan.

 

[Muslim-UK]

But a major difference between the noble wife of Proverbs and the Muslim woman is the right and opportunity to provide for her family. The husband in these verses is not providing he is discussing / doing politics and theology with the elders of the land. These verses are both a challenge to Islam and to a secular society that values business rather than good government and obedience to God above all else.

I thought I made it clear, a woman is able to work if she so chooses, and these days many do in all manner of jobs from shop assistants, teaching, sciences and medicine. The Prophet's first wife of 25 years had her own business and supported him, may GOD be pleased with her. Aisha ra was the first female Scholar of Islam following the Prophet's death and led an army into battle.

If men in some Countries have become too protective/controlling of their women, then that's an issue for that country/culture not Islam.

Men can allow bloodlust, lust, anger, pride, greed or fear to cloud their judgment, but it is the woman who is expected to be controlled by her hormones rather than the man in Islam.

Actually no. The man to be witness has to be trustworthy, of sound mind and known to be fair.

With some women I grant you menstruation is overwhelming to the point where their judgment is lost. This is especially so in societies where women are oppressed and deprived of educational advantages. In such societies it seems obvious that a womans judgment is flawed and that a female president would push the red button starting a nuclear war just cause she was having her period. In situations where men take responsibility for their outbursts and protect them from the consequences of such there is little incentive to learn self control and to find the quiet still voice of Gods wisdom in the storm of inner passions that threaten to drown it out. But the distinct advantage of the biblical view is that the bible allows for a wise woman who is not so controlled while the Koran lays a blanket condemnation on all women because some cannot be trusted.

Where are the Gospels written by the women of Jesus' time? Why does Saul rebuke women, why does Jesus pbuh ignore his mother, why does he insult the canaanite lady? What you type is quite different to the reality taught in the Bible.

The man can divorce a woman on a whim in Islam but if she is with his child he can choose to take her back. In this situation the man has all the power and his choice also is guided by his own self interest rather than that of the woman. Divorce is always ugly and is a failure born of both parties but this implies that it is always the man that gets to create or clean up the mess.

Again more ill-informed comments. GOD hates divorce and believing men and women do not take it lightly. The level of divorce within Muslim families is minimal compared to Christian households. Muslim women also have the option of issuing a straight forward divorce if their husband is not treating them well, not providing etc. Ultimately barring physical and emotional abuse we are encouraged to overlook shortcomings in our partners and help one another to improve characteristics/manners and to obtain success both in this life and the hereafter.

The relevance is not so much in what Islam prescribes as what it results in. The strict division of male and female and the hiding of women behind burkhas and walls means that a large underclass of unemployed young men from failed Muslim states really have no clue about how to behave around women.

The population of the UK is 65 Million of which just under 3 Million are Muslims, of those just 7,000 choose to wear a burkha.

You keep bringing crimes from immigrants as some sort of problem with Islam, and in truth it has nothing to do with it. If your liberal Christian system is the model every society should look to emulate then please explain why women suffer so much in America? Here's some stats for you to digest and comment on:

Fact #1: Over 22 million women in the United States have been raped in their lifetime. (National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010)

Fact #2: 18.3% of women in the United States have survived a completed or attempted rape. (National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010)

Fact #3: Of the 18.3% of women who have survived rape or attempted rape, 12.3% were younger than age 12 when they were first raped, and 29.9% were between the ages of 11 and 17. (National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010)

Fact #4: Every 90 seconds, somewhere in America, someone is sexually assaulted. (Calculation based on 2012 National Crime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice)

Fact #5: One out of every five American women has been the victims of an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime. (The National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010)Fact #6: Approximately 1,270,000 women are raped each year. Another 6,646,000 are victims of other sexual crime, including sexual coercion, unwanted sexual contact, or unwanted sexual experiences. (Department of Justice 2010).

Fact #7: 15% of sexual assault and rape victims are under age 12; 29% are age 12-17; 44% are under age 18; 80% are under age 30; ages 12-34 are the highest risk years. (Department of Justice 2010)

Fact #8: Girls ages 16-19 are 4 times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault. (Department of Justice 2010)

Fact #9: Most female victims are raped before the age of 25, and almost half of female victims are under the age of 18. (National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010). Fact #10: More than 75% of female victims were raped or sexually assaulted before age 25. (National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010). .

Fact #11: In 2006, 78,000 children were sexually abused. (Child Maltreatment 2006.) Because majority of cases are not reported, it is estimated that the real number could be anywhere from 260,000-650,000 a year. (Finklehor 2008). Fact #12: Almost two-thirds of all rapes are committed by someone who is known to the victim. 73% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger (— 48% of perpetrators were a friend or acquaintance of the victim, 17% were an intimate and 8% were another relative.) (National Crime Victimization Survey 2010)

Fact #13: 63.84% of women who reported being raped, physically assaulted, and/or stalked since age 18 were victimized by a current or former husband, cohabiting partner, boyfriend, or date. (National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010)

Fact #14: Of female rape or sexual assault victims in 2010, 25 percent were assaulted by a stranger, 48 percent by friends or acquaintances, and 17 percent were intimate partners. (National Crime Victimization Survey 2010) Fact #15: Almost 10% of high school students are victims of dating violence each year. (Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance 2009).

Fact #16: According to the Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance Survey (YRBSS), a national survey of high school students, 8.0% of students had been forced to have sexual intercourse when they did not want to. Female students (11.8%) were significantly more likely than male students (4.5%) to have been forced to have sexual intercourse. Overall, black students (17.1%) were significantly more likely than white students (15.2%) to have been forced to have sexual intercourse (CDC 2012).

Fact #17: A study reported in the New York Times suggests that one in five adolescent girls become the victims of physical or sexual violence, or both, in a dating relationship. (New York Times 8/01/01)

Fact #18: 93% of juvenile sexual assault victims know their attacker. 34.2% of attackers were family members and 58.7 were acquaintances. (U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics. Sexual Assault of Young Children as Reported to Law Enforcement 2000.)

Fact #19: The Campus Sexual Assault Study estimated that between 1 in 4 and 1 in 5 college women experience completed or attempted rape during their college years (National Institute of Justice 2007).

Fact #21: About one-third of female murder victims ages 12 or older are killed by an intimate partner. (Department of Justice 2007)

Fact #22: A University of Pennsylvania research study found that domestic violence is the leading cause of injury to low-income, inner-city Philadelphia women between the ages of 15 to 44 - more common than automobile accidents, mugging and rapes combined. In this study domestic violence included injuries caused by street crime.

Fact #23: The FBI estimates that only 46% of rapes and sexual assaults are reported to the police. U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.

Fact #24: Less than half of domestic violence incidents are reported to police. African-American women are more likely than others to report their victimization to police Lawrence A. Greenfeld et al. (1998). (Violence by Intimates: Analysis of Data on Crimes by Current or Former Spouses, Boyfriends, and Girlfriends. Bureau of Justice Statistics Factbook. Washington DC: U.S. Department of Justice. NCJ #167237. Available from National Criminal Justice Reference Service.)

Fact #25: Sexual violence and gender based violence is associated with a host of short- and long-term problems, including physical injury and illness, psychological symptoms, economic costs, and death (Lifetime Prevalence of Gender-Based Violence in Women and the Relationship with Mental Disorders and Psychosocial Function, Journal of American Medical Association 2011).

Fact #26: Rape victims often experience anxiety, guilt, nervousness, phobias, substance abuse, sleep disturbances, depression, alienation, sexual dysfunction, and aggression. They often distrust others and replay the assault in their minds, and they are at increased risk of future victimization (DeLahunta 1997).

Fact #27: Victims of sexual assault are 3 times more likely to suffer from depression, 6 times more likley to suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder, 14 times more likely to abuse alcohol, 26 times more likely to abuse drugs, and 4 times more likely to contemplate suicide. (World Health Organization 2003)

Fact #28: Sexual violence victims exhibit a variety of psychological symptoms that are similar to those of victims of other types of trauma, such as war and natural disaster (National Research Council 1996). A number of long-lasting symptoms and illnesses have been associated with sexual victimization including chronic pelvic pain; premenstrual syndrome; gastrointestinal disorders; and a variety of chronic pain disorders, including headache, back pain, and facial pain (Koss 1992).Between 4% and 30% of rape victims contract sexually transmitted diseases as a result of the victimization (Resnick 1997).

Fact #29: The costs of intimate partner violence against women exceed an estimated $5.8 billion. These costs include nearly $4.1 billion in the direct costs of medical care and mental health care and nearly $1.8 billion in the indirect costs of lost productivity and present value of lifetime earnings. (Costs of Intimate Partner Violence Against Women in the United States, Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Atlanta, Georgia, March 2003).

Fact #30 Intimate partner violence causes U.S. women to lose about $727 million in wages from their approximately 8 million days of missed work. (National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, 2003).

Fact #31: It is estimated that 43% of lesbian and bisexual women and 30% of gay and bisexual men have experienced at least one form of sexual assault during their lifetimes. (Rothman 2011)

Fact #32: About 67.9% of rape victims are white; 11.9% are black; 14% are hispanic and 6% are of other races. (National Crime Victimization Survey, Department of Justice 2010).

Fact #33: About half of all rape victims are in the lowest third of income distribution; half are in the upper two-thirds. (Violence against Women, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Justice, 1994.)

Fact #34 Women who resided in households that earned less than $10,000 annually are four times more likely to experience violence than women in wealthier households (Browne, Salomon, & Bassuk 1999)

Fact #35: An estimated 17,500 women and children are trafficked into the United States annually for sexual exploitation or forced labor. (U.S. Department of State Trafficking in Persons Report 2012).

Fact #36: Offenders have been reported to be armed with a gun, knife or other weapon in 11 percent of rape or sexual assault victimizations. (Criminal Victimization, Bureau of Justice, 2010)

Fact #37: Factoring in unreported rapes, about 6% of rapists will ever spend a day in jail. 15 out of 16 will walk free. (Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network (RAINN) calculation based on US Department of Justice 2010 Statistics)

Fact #38: Boys who witness their fathers' violence are 10 times more likely to engage in spouse abuse in later adulthood than boys from non-violent homes. (Family Violence Interventions for the Justice System, 1993)

FACTS ABOUT VIOLENCE

Mainly but not exclusively and demonstrates the continual wars that characterised the early Muslim period. this is a religion born in violence and with provisions for the consequences of that violence built into it. In the modern era wars , outside the continual conflicts of the Muslim world ((e.g. Iraq , Syria, Yemen), are not as common and it is only a rich man who can afford to have multiple wives. But even president Trump who has had multiple wives and "concubines" and a reputation for denigrating women usually does his wives one at a time.

A religion born in violence? Do you know why revisionists question the Islamic narrative on how Islam came about, is because archaeology shows a distinct lack of violence as Islam spread. The fact Muslim armies had Jewish and Christian followers both in officer and rank and file level has led them to believe it started as a general believers movement under the banner of Monotheism and later identified itself as a distinct Islamic religion.

Here's a qualified Scholar giving a lecture on the issue.

I am not going to excuse the examples of fallen pastors and priests so gleefully reported by a secular media nor indeed hypocrisy within the church. We are all sinners and if there were not examples of such sin amongst the 2 billion plus Christians in the world I would be very surprised. Yes men do think about sex a lot. But this craving for biological release, relationship and intimacy is something they will not need in heaven. It says a lot about the Muslim understanding of God that they think a man would need to have sex in heaven. The intense joy and intimacy of Gods presence is all sufficient and islam appears to be suggesting that it is not enough. The implicit blasphemy there is that God will not change us and cannot satisfy a mans need , but rather only his creature (a woman) can.

Please explain what Jesus pbuh himself taught about Heaven or list the verses, so I may go and have a read.

The intense joy and intimacy of GOD's presence is only available to those who obtain the highest heaven. The vast majority of believers will likely make it to just the lowest levels, and we will be the same person we were on Earth, but improved of course. We can discuss the realities of the afterlife once I've read what Christians have been taught about the soul's journey.

Are you really suggesting that these examples are only from the 7th century!!. The Islamic State Caliphate, the Taliban or Boko Haram apply these principles today.

Immigrants and now terrorist groups. Whatever next! You can't take US $ US weapons and training and decide you are a self declared Islamic State. It doesn't work like that and these terrorist groups will never prosper, as they do not represent Islam, which is why it is Muslims in the front lines fighting against them.

This is true and I accept that ultimate leadership of the church is male as Christ himself came as a man. It is a feature of our fallen world that men will generally lead until the end. This must be so in the church but less so in a political world. But even there the presence of female leaders conceals a male dominated cabal of hidden power brokers. But understanding the difference between male headship and Muslim dominance is the key here. The Christian yoke is easy and its burdens are light and the exception is allowed for. Sometimes as in the case of the prophetess Deborah it is the woman that is called to lead.

You have a weird idea of what Muslim women must be like. Perhaps pop along to your local Mosque on a open day and ask to speak to the women, you could ask them a range of questions and gather their views on issues where you feel they are being 'dominated' by the men. I'm sure the responses will be quite the wake up call for you.

The same oppressions that have characterised the world since the fall were also there in the Christian world. The difference between the Christian and Muslim world is the extent to which female freedoms have been realised and their potential released. It remains an honourable calling to be a wife and a mother but a woman can also do other things not permitted her in the Muslim world.

What can a women do in the West that she can't in the Muslim World?

A great many cultures never saw a separation of church and state. Christianity globally has never been stronger and has been growing non stop for 2000 years. It is weak in the Middle east where Islamist genocides have provoked mass emigration. In the West an apparent decline in the numbers of cultural Christians misreported in the secular media and misunderstood by secular pollsters conceals the underlying health of the true church. If Christians should lose control of the Wests political structures that would be a serious problem however given the Wests relative power and that they are very often all that holds the forces of evil at bay.

I'm pleased you sound so upbeat and positive about the state of Christianity, however in the real World Christianity is seen as a spent force. Sure Politicians like to appeal to the Christian vote in some Countries where it still relatively holds some weight, (eg Bible belt of America). Here in Europe people who confess to being Christian are viewed as being somehow lacking and tend to keep their beliefs quiet. Here in the UK a meet Christians who are so in name only and have idea what Christian Doctrine actually is. A quick look through the subforums on this site shows people are scared and worried about being saved and if the church they're attending is the right one. Quite often no 2 Christians are in agreement on core issues, but anyway that's of no concern for me and a soul seeking truth will never be stopped from finding the right path eventually.

God comes first and the freedom of relationship we can have with him is the thing we should celebrate above all else. But as Proverbs 31 indicates a female business woman and family provider is hardly a threat to the religious order, indeed she can supply financial support for it. Why should God not delight in the hopes and dreams of women and give them the freedom to explore those when they delight themselves in Him. Those who hold women behind walls and Burkhas may be nothing better than jailers who are in fact also prisoners of the same fortifications that they inhabit.

Do visit a Mosque and see just how wrong you are about Muslim women.

 

[mindlight]

It's the same in Islam:

"They (your wives) are your garment and you are a garment for them" Qur'an 2:187

This verse of the Quran reveals the basic purpose and concept of marriage in Islam. Islam enjoins that a wife and husband should have the most intimate and loving relationship. Each should cover, protect, and safeguard the interests of the other partner. This profound and revolutionary verse has the following 5 practical implications:

1- The fact that man and woman are considered garments to each other suggests that both have an equal status in sharing the responsibilities of marriage.

2- As the garment covers the body in such a way that there is nothing between the garment and the body, the husband and wife should be so close and intimate to each other that there should be no secrets between them. Both confide fully in each other and share their joys and sorrows without any hesitation.

3- The task of the garment is to protect the body from outside dangers. The husband and wife accordingly protect each other from all external dangers and work together to build a home and a tranquil refuge from the harshness of daily life.

4- A garment not only covers the body but also gives it beauty and grace. Similarly, husband and wife should not only cover and shield each other from external worries, temptations, abuses....etc., but should do so with grace and dignity.

5- No one likes to live without clothes, hence men and women should aspire to get married and serve as garments to each other.

It is interesting to note how this verse played a major role in the journey of a British economist and teacher, Kieren Ashorth to Islam (now known as Yusuf Abdullah):

"Very often in my journey to Islam, I was faced with intellectual and moral dilemmas. Was Islam not supposed to be cruel to women, roughly half of the world's population? One day, I was reading a translation of the Quran and came across a passage in which it described 'a wife as a garment for her husband and a husband as a garment for his wife.' What beauty and what a sublime description!"

Those who accept all previous Messengers, Scriptures and confess GOD Alone is worthy of worship have noting to fear in the hereafter.

Muslims know Jesus pbuh. We follow the Jesus who taught pure Monotheism. We follow what was taught just like his family understood it; we don't follow the corrupted version of Jesus presented by the Romans. For us he was the Messiah, born of a virgin, he did miracles and wonders by the permission of GOD, he submitted his will to GOD alone and followed the Torah. He came to rebuke the ruling class within Judaism and to bring them back to the straight path, leaving aside their man made rules, regulations and over inflated ceremonial rituals.

Can be contrasted with the wife beating advocated in 4:34

" Husbands should take full care of their wives, with [the bounties] God has given to some more than others and with what they spend out of their own money. Righteous wives are devout and guard what God would have them guard in the husbands’ absence. If you fear high-handedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great."

As one Muslim once explained to me you can hit your wife but when you lift your arm to strike her you cannot take a big swing from behind the level of your shoulder.

Domestic violence in Islam : The Quran on wife-beating

 

[mindlight]

You keep bringing crimes from immigrants as some sort of problem with Islam, and in truth it has nothing to do with it. If your liberal Christian system is the model every society should look to emulate then please explain why women suffer so much in America? Here's some stats for you to digest and comment on:

Fact #1: Over 22 million women in the United States have been raped in their lifetime. (National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010)

Fact #2: 18.3% of women in the United States have survived a completed or attempted rape. (National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010)

Fact #3: Of the 18.3% of women who have survived rape or attempted rape, 12.3% were younger than age 12 when they were first raped, and 29.9% were between the ages of 11 and 17. (National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010)

Fact #4: Every 90 seconds, somewhere in America, someone is sexually assaulted. (Calculation based on 2012 National Crime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice)

Fact #5: One out of every five American women has been the victims of an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime. (The National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010)Fact #6: Approximately 1,270,000 women are raped each year. Another 6,646,000 are victims of other sexual crime, including sexual coercion, unwanted sexual contact, or unwanted sexual experiences. (Department of Justice 2010).

Fact #7: 15% of sexual assault and rape victims are under age 12; 29% are age 12-17; 44% are under age 18; 80% are under age 30; ages 12-34 are the highest risk years. (Department of Justice 2010)

Fact #8: Girls ages 16-19 are 4 times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault. (Department of Justice 2010)

Fact #9: Most female victims are raped before the age of 25, and almost half of female victims are under the age of 18. (National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010). Fact #10: More than 75% of female victims were raped or sexually assaulted before age 25. (National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010). .

Fact #11: In 2006, 78,000 children were sexually abused. (Child Maltreatment 2006.) Because majority of cases are not reported, it is estimated that the real number could be anywhere from 260,000-650,000 a year. (Finklehor 2008). Fact #12: Almost two-thirds of all rapes are committed by someone who is known to the victim. 73% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger (— 48% of perpetrators were a friend or acquaintance of the victim, 17% were an intimate and 8% were another relative.) (National Crime Victimization Survey 2010)

Fact #13: 63.84% of women who reported being raped, physically assaulted, and/or stalked since age 18 were victimized by a current or former husband, cohabiting partner, boyfriend, or date. (National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey 2010)

Fact #14: Of female rape or sexual assault victims in 2010, 25 percent were assaulted by a stranger, 48 percent by friends or acquaintances, and 17 percent were intimate partners. (National Crime Victimization Survey 2010) Fact #15: Almost 10% of high school students are victims of dating violence each year. (Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance 2009).

Fact #16: According to the Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance Survey (YRBSS), a national survey of high school students, 8.0% of students had been forced to have sexual intercourse when they did not want to. Female students (11.8%) were significantly more likely than male students (4.5%) to have been forced to have sexual intercourse. Overall, black students (17.1%) were significantly more likely than white students (15.2%) to have been forced to have sexual intercourse (CDC 2012).

Fact #17: A study reported in the New York Times suggests that one in five adolescent girls become the victims of physical or sexual violence, or both, in a dating relationship. (New York Times 8/01/01)

Fact #18: 93% of juvenile sexual assault victims know their attacker. 34.2% of attackers were family members and 58.7 were acquaintances. (U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics. Sexual Assault of Young Children as Reported to Law Enforcement 2000.)

Fact #19: The Campus Sexual Assault Study estimated that between 1 in 4 and 1 in 5 college women experience completed or attempted rape during their college years (National Institute of Justice 2007).

Fact #21: About one-third of female murder victims ages 12 or older are killed by an intimate partner. (Department of Justice 2007)

Fact #22: A University of Pennsylvania research study found that domestic violence is the leading cause of injury to low-income, inner-city Philadelphia women between the ages of 15 to 44 - more common than automobile accidents, mugging and rapes combined. In this study domestic violence included injuries caused by street crime.

Fact #23: The FBI estimates that only 46% of rapes and sexual assaults are reported to the police. U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.

Fact #24: Less than half of domestic violence incidents are reported to police. African-American women are more likely than others to report their victimization to police Lawrence A. Greenfeld et al. (1998). (Violence by Intimates: Analysis of Data on Crimes by Current or Former Spouses, Boyfriends, and Girlfriends. Bureau of Justice Statistics Factbook. Washington DC: U.S. Department of Justice. NCJ #167237. Available from National Criminal Justice Reference Service.)

Fact #25: Sexual violence and gender based violence is associated with a host of short- and long-term problems, including physical injury and illness, psychological symptoms, economic costs, and death (Lifetime Prevalence of Gender-Based Violence in Women and the Relationship with Mental Disorders and Psychosocial Function, Journal of American Medical Association 2011).

Fact #26: Rape victims often experience anxiety, guilt, nervousness, phobias, substance abuse, sleep disturbances, depression, alienation, sexual dysfunction, and aggression. They often distrust others and replay the assault in their minds, and they are at increased risk of future victimization (DeLahunta 1997).

Fact #27: Victims of sexual assault are 3 times more likely to suffer from depression, 6 times more likley to suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder, 14 times more likely to abuse alcohol, 26 times more likely to abuse drugs, and 4 times more likely to contemplate suicide. (World Health Organization 2003)

Fact #28: Sexual violence victims exhibit a variety of psychological symptoms that are similar to those of victims of other types of trauma, such as war and natural disaster (National Research Council 1996). A number of long-lasting symptoms and illnesses have been associated with sexual victimization including chronic pelvic pain; premenstrual syndrome; gastrointestinal disorders; and a variety of chronic pain disorders, including headache, back pain, and facial pain (Koss 1992).Between 4% and 30% of rape victims contract sexually transmitted diseases as a result of the victimization (Resnick 1997).

Fact #29: The costs of intimate partner violence against women exceed an estimated $5.8 billion. These costs include nearly $4.1 billion in the direct costs of medical care and mental health care and nearly $1.8 billion in the indirect costs of lost productivity and present value of lifetime earnings. (Costs of Intimate Partner Violence Against Women in the United States, Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Atlanta, Georgia, March 2003).

Fact #30 Intimate partner violence causes U.S. women to lose about $727 million in wages from their approximately 8 million days of missed work. (National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, 2003).

Fact #31: It is estimated that 43% of lesbian and bisexual women and 30% of gay and bisexual men have experienced at least one form of sexual assault during their lifetimes. (Rothman 2011)

Fact #32: About 67.9% of rape victims are white; 11.9% are black; 14% are hispanic and 6% are of other races. (National Crime Victimization Survey, Department of Justice 2010).

Fact #33: About half of all rape victims are in the lowest third of income distribution; half are in the upper two-thirds. (Violence against Women, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Justice, 1994.)

Fact #34 Women who resided in households that earned less than $10,000 annually are four times more likely to experience violence than women in wealthier households (Browne, Salomon, & Bassuk 1999)

Fact #35: An estimated 17,500 women and children are trafficked into the United States annually for sexual exploitation or forced labor. (U.S. Department of State Trafficking in Persons Report 2012).

Fact #36: Offenders have been reported to be armed with a gun, knife or other weapon in 11 percent of rape or sexual assault victimizations. (Criminal Victimization, Bureau of Justice, 2010)

Fact #37: Factoring in unreported rapes, about 6% of rapists will ever spend a day in jail. 15 out of 16 will walk free. (Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network (RAINN) calculation based on US Department of Justice 2010 Statistics)

Fact #38: Boys who witness their fathers' violence are 10 times more likely to engage in spouse abuse in later adulthood than boys from non-violent homes. (Family Violence Interventions for the Justice System, 1993)

Firstly I am not an American and the rape statistics there are some 3-4 times higher than where I live in Germany. You could have chosen Turkey a nominally Muslim country where some 35% of women profess to have been raped. Also the stats in the USA have very little to with Christian faith and a lot to do with the freedom to print the truth. In Saudia Arabia a man can own a sex slave (but this will never find its way into the rape statistics) he might sleep with a girl who has her first blood aged 10 and not have it called child abuse, or a woman can be raped and fear to speak out for fear of being punished for being the victim of rape as in this incident:

Saudi Arabia: Rape Victim Punished for Speaking Out

This is not about the sublime and beautiful. Read the reports from Amnesty international about the victims of Islamic states rape rampage through Iraq and Syria and the ways in which they have treated non- Muslim or even non Sunni extremist women. Or those about how IS have been selling sex slaves to wealthy Saudi clients.

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/files/escape_from_hell_-_torture_and_sexual_slavery_in_islamic_state_captivity_in_iraq_-_english_2.pdf

Islamic State 'selling sex slaves to wealthy clients from Saudi Arabia and Turkey'