The World Needs Women Priests

[Redwingfan9]

I'm not sure where you get the idea of "our depravity" and "our desprate [sic] need for a savior"; it certainly doesn't apply to believers.

We are not dead in trespasses and sins; we are alive to God in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:1-6...

"And although you were dead [past] in your offenses and sins, in which you formerly lived according to this world’s present path, according to the ruler of the domain of the air, the ruler of the spirit that is now energizing the sons of disobedience, among whom all of us also formerly lived out our lives in the cravings of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath even as the rest…

But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, even though we were dead in offenses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you are saved!— and he raised us up together with him and seated us together with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus..."

"... our hearts are dead and can only be made alive by God" is a plain denial of Christ's saving work: the cross. Those of us who are saved are, by definition, living [present tense] a new life in Christ.

Self-abasement may have an aura of humility and piety but it is contrary to God's Word.

You completely missed my point...

 

[Strong in Him]

Silence clearly means in the context of preaching and teaching in corporate worship. For centuries women sang psalms with the rest of the congregation in Jewish synagogues. Everyone at that time would have known that and the context would have been understood to mean church leadership and preaching during corporate worship.

Except that you said that anyone engaged in worship that is not authorised in Scripture is doing so without the authority of Christ.
All the things I mentioned, and a few more, are not "authorised" in Scripture.

Another thing that's not authorised in Scripture is needing an ordained member of the clergy to preside at Holy Communion, or it's not "valid". Most churches take that as read and would not dream of letting a lay person preside at communion; but it's not found in Scripture. In fact having a "service" of Holy Communion, with special liturgy, is not in Scripture at all.

 

[Redwingfan9]

Except that you said that anyone engaged in worship that is not authorised in Scripture is doing so without the authority of Christ.
All the things I mentioned, and a few more, are not "authorised" in Scripture.

Another thing that's not authorised in Scripture is needing an ordained member of the clergy to preside at Holy Communion, or it's not "valid". Most churches take that as read and would not dream of letting a lay person preside at communion; but it's not found in Scripture. In fact having a "service" of Holy Communion, with special liturgy, is not in Scripture at all.

I'm as low church as they come. That said, scripture does create the framework for running the church and it does not include women. As for worship, God's wordnis abundantly clear about what is expected in worship and who should preside over it. Again, it does not include women. Modernists may not like that but we cannot assume to be nicer than God or more woke than the creator.

 

[Love365]

Except that you said that anyone engaged in worship that is not authorised in Scripture is doing so without the authority of Christ.
All the things I mentioned, and a few more, are not "authorised" in Scripture.

Another thing that's not authorised in Scripture is needing an ordained member of the clergy to preside at Holy Communion, or it's not "valid". Most churches take that as read and would not dream of letting a lay person preside at communion; but it's not found in Scripture. In fact having a "service" of Holy Communion, with special liturgy, is not in Scripture at all.

According to the Catholic Church only a male priest can represent Jesus at the Last Supper during Holy Communion.

A woman priest could still hear confessions, anoint the sick, or preform weddings.

 

[pescador]

You completely missed my point...

You wrote, "Scripture is abundantly clear about our depravity and our desprate [sic] need for a savior. We are dead in trespasses and sins, our hearts are dead and can only be made alive by God. This isn't self abasement, it's a plain reading of God's word."

What is there to miss? We are not dead in trespasses and sins, our hearts are not dead... We have been born again into a new life as God's own children, dearly loved by Him.

That is what Scripture says; it is the basis of the Christian religion. Just one example...1 John 3:1, "See what sort of love the Father has given to us: that we should be called God’s children—and indeed we are!" => PRESENT TENSE <=

 

[pescador]

According to the Catholic Church only a male priest can represent Jesus at the Last Supper during Holy Communion.

A woman priest could still hear confessions, anoint the sick, or preform weddings.

So? That may be fine for Catholics but it is not Scriptural.

 

[Clare73]

The world needs women priests
to help women in poor countries get an education and jobs.

Jesus ordained two priests.
John the Baptist and Mary of Bethany.

Does the world need women priests?

Where do you find Jesus ordaining Mary of Bethany, or anyone else.

 

[Redwingfan9]

You wrote, "Scripture is abundantly clear about our depravity and our desprate [sic] need for a savior. We are dead in trespasses and sins, our hearts are dead and can only be made alive by God. This isn't self abasement, it's a plain reading of God's word."

What is there to miss? We are not dead in trespasses and sins, our hearts are not dead... We have been born again into a new life as God's own children, dearly loved by Him.

That is what Scripture says; it is the basis of the Christian religion. Just one example...1 John 3:1, "See what sort of love the Father has given to us: that we should be called God’s children—and indeed we are!" => PRESENT TENSE <=

You're again missing my point. All of mankind is dead in trespasses and sins and deserving of hellfire. That includes all women. We are all born into an estate of sin and misery as both Westminster and the Heidelberg say. That is our equality, likewise God saves both men and women according to his good pleasure. That is our equality. That he has given each different roles in this life does not take anything away from our equality in sin and misery and our equality as being saved by Christ if we are saved.

 

[Strong in Him]

I'm as low church as they come. That said, scripture does create the framework for running the church and it does not include women. As for worship, God's wordnis abundantly clear about what is expected in worship and who should preside over it. Again, it does not include women. Modernists may not like that but we cannot assume to be nicer than God or more woke than the creator.

Nicer than God?
In Jesus' day, women were nothing. Pharisees used to daily pray "thank you for not making me a gentile or a woman." They had no rights, they could be divorced simply by the husband leaving a note saying "I divorce you", and were not allowed to be witnesses in court. They were unclean at certain times of the month and after childbirth, and if their little bundle of joy turned out to be a girl; they were doubly unclean.
And yet what did Jesus do? He spoke to women, forgave and healed them, was touched by a woman who had been bleeding for years and called her "daughter". He taught that both men AND women were created by God, in his image. He allowed a woman to sit at his feet - in the place reserved for male student Rabbis, allowed women to support him financially and allowed a woman with a dubious reputation to anoint him and wipe his feet with her hair. He CHOSE a woman to be the first witness to the resurrection; not the so called future leaders of the church who were all hiding in fear. That was God; touching, speaking to, teaching and healing those who were thought to be nothing, and restoring their self respect. That was God, calling them his daughters.

"Love one another as I have loved you", he said.
And what do some sections of the church reply? "Women are very useful and have gifts but God cannot call them to preach, he won't call them to preach and any woman who says otherwise is lying." "We have a verse which tells us that Paul did not allow a woman to speak, so we're going to use that to keep women in their place - teaching the kids."

The early church never debated the role of women; they never had to. Women were in the upper room with the disciples before Pentecost, hosted church gatherings, faithfully attended places of prayer (Acts of the Apostles 16:13-15; Lydia was probably a founder member of the church at Philippi), prophesied, prayed and proclaimed the Gospel. Phoebe was a deacon, Junias was outstanding among the Apostles, Priscilla hosted a church gathering and taught Apollos. Paul taught about the gifts of the Spirit and did not say that women would never be given certain gifts - one of these gifts was Pastor, Ephesians 4:11, and another was teacher, 1 Corinthians 12:28.

Thank God that whatever my church may get wrong, it allows us to test our calling from God, and does not tell God that he cannot use certain people.

 

[Love365]

Where do you find Jesus ordaining Mary of Bethany, or anyone else.

Jesus let John the Baptist give Him a baptism.
Like a priest.

Jesus let Mary of Bethany anoint Him with holy oil.
Like a priest.
Then Jesus said when you spread the Gospel throughout the world,
Do it in memory of her.

Why?
She was the first woman to be a Christian priest.

 

[Archivist]

The subject is supposed to be women's ordination. The opponents point to a half-dozen or so scriptural and historical reasons for their stand, and the advocates then turn women's ordination into what God must surely want done as they intuit the matter or else describe it as if it were a civil rights issue.

No, I and other who favor female ordination can point to just as much in Scripture as you can.

It's as though they want us to take seriously the notion, at least for debate purposes, that the historic churches adhere to the original belief of the Church with regard to this matter because they look down on women!

Perhaps others have said that; I have not.

They argue that women were "leaders" (but not clergy) in the ancient church,

Name twenty-five elders in in the early church.

that they were deaconesses (but not clergy),

Phoebe is specifically listed as being a deacon, not a deaconess. I pointed that out before but you ignored it.

that they were highly regarded by Jesus (as though that answers the question),

They were. In fact, Jesus selected a woman to be the first person to preach the Good News that He was risen.

that some were appointed as messengers, i.e. as "apostles"(but not clergy),

So that is all Peter was, just a messenger?

that they can deliver a sermon as effectively as any man (which is certainly true but off the subject).

That's true, but I have never claimed that as a reason for ordination, although one of my former pastors, a woman, delivers a great sermon.

And that's only part of the information that absolutely doesn't 'prove' that women were ordained or should be.

In Christ there is neither male nor female. Sounds pretty clear to me.

 

[Strong in Him]

According to the Catholic Church only a male priest can represent Jesus at the Last Supper during Holy Communion.

That idea is not found in Scripture, though.
Who said we need anyone to represent Jesus? He himself said "do this in memory of me", not "find someone to represent me and recreate this meal".
The early church broke bread together - nowhere does it say that an apostle, or elder, was always present, never mind that they "represented" Jesus. When Paul was unhappy with the Corinthians, it wasn't because they did not have anyone to represent Jesus when they celebrated his meal.
And Jesus is alive in all Christians, by his Holy Spirit. All of us who bear his name and have his Spirit, represent Jesus wherever we go and whatever we do.

 

[Love365]

Where did Jesus anoint either of those as priests.

Jesus let John the Baptist give Him a baptism.
Like a priest.

Jesus let Mary of Bethany anoint Him with holy oil.
Like a priest.
Then Jesus said when you spread the Gospel throughout the world,
Do it in memory of her.

Why?
She was the first woman to be a Christian priest.

 

[Love365]

What should the requirements be for a woman priest?

 

[JackRT]

What should the requirements be for a woman priest?

Why should they be any difference than a man? And both should be permitted to marry.

 

[Albion]

Why should they be any difference than a man?

Oh, you know, the Bible.

 

[All4Christ]

Jesus let John the Baptist give Him a baptism.
Like a priest.

Jesus let Mary of Bethany anoint Him with holy oil.
Like a priest.
Then Jesus said when you spread the Gospel throughout the world,
Do it in memory of her.

Why?
She was the first woman to be a Christian priest.

Does anointing automatically someone make them a priest? We have some anointing oil that we have for anointing each other in our home. Does that make us priests (besides the sharing of the royal priesthood by all believers)?

 

[Archivist]

Oh, you know, the Bible.

You mean the book that doesn’t say that women can’t be priests? The one that says that in Christ there is neither male nor female.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

Jesus let John the Baptist give Him a baptism.
Like a priest.

Jesus let Mary of Bethany anoint Him with holy oil.
Like a priest.
Then Jesus said when you spread the Gospel throughout the world,
Do it in memory of her.

Why?
She was the first woman to be a Christian priest.

I think you are greatly mistaken. John was a priest because he came from a priestly family (Zacharia) and Mary didn't become a priest because she anointed Jesus.

You don't become a priest because you do something, in fact the Bible tells us we are all priests (1 Peter 2), including women.

Your reasoning is flawed.

 

[Love365]

Could a woman be a bishop or a cardinal?