The World Needs Women Priests

Hmm

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Actually, it couldn't be much clearer. We could run through all that evidence once more, but in these debates--as with those that have taken place in church conventions--it never makes any difference.

I believe in Sola Scriptura (mainly because of your defence of it on some of these threads so thanks!) but when different opinions are held by equally intelligent, educated and informed people after looking at scripture what is the best way forward? I don't believe in having a so-called infallible church body pronouncing on the issue but some kind of vote carried out in humility (for churches that don't already have women's ordination) doesn't seem a bad solution.
 
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Strong in Him

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I believe in Sola Scriptura (mainly because of your defence of it on some of these threads so thanks!) but when different opinions are held by equally intelligent, educated and informed people after looking at scripture what is the best way forward? I don't believe in having a so-called infallible church body pronouncing on the issue but some kind of vote carried out in humility (for churches that don't already have women's ordination) doesn't seem a bad solution.

The solution at the moment is, if you are part of a church that allows/doesn't allow ordination and you are unhappy with that; move churches.
Some people will feel so strongly about this issue that they will do that. Others may have a preference, but decide that it's not important enough to worry about. Still others may not even think to question it; the important thing for them is can the person preach and do pastoral work?
I've heard of men who've been completely anti women preachers/clergy, until they've experienced them. William Booth was one of those - and he married the female preacher in question.
 
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Hmm

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The solution at the moment is, if you are part of a church that allows/doesn't allow ordination and you are unhappy with that; move churches.
Some people will feel so strongly about this issue that they will do that. Others may have a preference, but decide that it's not important enough to worry about. Still others may not even think to question it; the important thing for them is can the person preach and do pastoral work?
I've heard of men who've been completely anti women preachers/clergy, until they've experienced them. William Booth was one of those - and he married the female preacher in question.

Yes, I'm sure that's right. A lot of the opinions we hold come from our personal experience and we develop an intellectual framework on top of that. I'm an Anglican and I hope the church manages to hold together on this issue but also moves forward.
 
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Paidiske

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I'm an Anglican and I hope the church manages to hold together on this issue but also moves forward.

It's not together at all, even now. The nastiness and hostility - even within dioceses which have adopted a particular position - can be appalling. I don't know what the solution is.
 
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I think most everyone would agree if you removed the word priest, as the world needs women to help women in poor countries get an education and jobs. I don't think women need to be priests to do that. There are plenty of churches without female priests or pastors who have female support groups to teach and help each other grow as Christians and human beings in general. The Catholic Church has the Catholic Women's League that was intended to fulfill such a role.
 
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Hmm

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It's not together at all, even now. The nastiness and hostility - even within dioceses which have adopted a particular position - can be appalling. I don't know what the solution is.

Ah, I didn't realise that. It must be very difficult to be subject to things like that. A fundamental part of the solution must be that women have the strength and courage to continue following the calling that they've had, but that's very easy for me to say of course. I'll pray that you get all the encouragement that you need!
 
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Jesus is already doing what He knows He wants with every woman who obeys Him. She ministers His own grace > 1 Peter 4:9-10 > plus she uses her actual Christian experience to help her to feel for people and minister with compassion to others, like Jesus is doing as our High Priest >

"For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews 4:15)

Jesus Himself has gone through things of this life, then, so now He as our Groom can feel for us and minister to us His grace which had Him doing so well through it all. And likewise, this is how women of Jesus minister in His priesthood.
 
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A lot of the opinions we hold come from our personal experience and we develop an intellectual framework on top of that. I'm an Anglican and I hope the church manages to hold together on this issue but also moves forward.
It's not together at all, even now. The nastiness and hostility - even within dioceses which have adopted a particular position - can be appalling. I don't know what the solution is.
If a man does not know how to relate with a woman, and how to benefit from a woman's ministry . . . possibly he does not know how to love and certainly is not qualified to minister officially . . . I would say . . . partly going by 1 Peter 5:3 >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

Your reputation and label have nothing to do with if and how you truly minister Jesus and His word. I consider how Christian women "without a word" can help disobedient men > 1 Peter 3:1-4.

There is a reason why Mary Magdalene was the first to see Jesus and then was used by Jesus to notify the men that Christ is risen > John 1:1-18.
 
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Hmm

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If a man does not know how to relate with a lady, and how to benefit from a lady's ministry . . . possibly he does not know how to love

Quite possibly. Do you mind if I say something? Not that I speak for all the women of the world but I think women generally prefer the terms "woman" and "women" to "lady" and "ladies". The word "lady" is old-fashioned now and can sound patronising, but I know you didn't mean it in that way at all, so it's probably best avoided!
 
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com7fy8

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I've heard of men who've been completely anti women preachers/clergy, until they've experienced them. William Booth was one of those - and he married the female preacher in question.
There are men who are anti-women, but they were brought up by mothers! And if you say, oh those mothers were effected by the men leading their religious groups . . . some number of those leaders were brought up by mothers!!

There are people who claim to be brought up by Mary the mother of Jesus, but they can not handle relating with women in marriage, never mind having them minister.

But Paul and Timothy and Silvanus say they related with the Thessalonians, "just as a nursing mother cherishes her own children" > in 1 Thessalonians 2:7. From this, I see how these great men of Jesus learned how to love, with the help of nursing mothers teaching them how to pastor in our Father's love. Their seminary preparation, then, included sharing with nursing mothers.

I can now see, then, why Paul says for a man to be the husband of one woman > 1 Timothy 3:1-10 > so he can have the seminary preparation of a nursing mother . . . his wife :)

So, Jesus Christ's priesthood is not the way a number of people represent it to be, I would say.

I suspect there are women trying to get themselves into what is not the priesthood. I have seen how women with a dominating spirit can be out to prove that women can be called to preach. But they do not obey how Jesus has His pastors "being examples" (1 Peter 5:3) of how to relate in love >

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love." (Ephesians 4:2)

And our example needs to include how we submit to Christ so we minister and relate and work in His "rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:28-29). It appears there are many who have not been pastored to obey how Jesus has us living and loving in His "rest for your souls."

This is included in our basic Christian calling, which is like to Colossians 3:15 >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful."
(Colossians 3:15)

There are leaders, including women, who do not obey even this basic of Christianity . . . while they can be so busy with going on and on and on about if Jesus wants women to preach and be priests. They aren't even doing the basic of it, for
"being examples to the flock." (in 1 Peter 5:3)

Our Father is personal with His children > including personally ruling each of us in His own peace > in our
"hearts" > so very intimately as family in sharing and caring with Him and one another. This is part of our basic calling > "in one body" (Colossians 3:15). So, our example needs to include this in the sight of God. Or, are we functional in the priesthood of Jesus?
 
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Albion

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That's because it isn't clear.
And that what God IS doing today - and has been for a while - is calling women to ordination.
That does appear to be the main claim made by advocates pf women's ordination. And why wouldn't it be, when Scripture and Tradition are solidly on the side of the opposite POV?
 
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That does appear to be the main claim made by advocates pf women's ordination. And why wouldn't it be, when Scripture and Tradition are solidly on the side of the opposite POV?
But Scripture isn't solidly on the side of those opposing the ordination of women. That is why this thread has gone on for 18 pages and shows no sign of stopping.

Tradition? There are many longstanding traditions that we no longer practice. As a famous hymn says "New occasions teach new duties, Time makes ancient good uncouth."
 
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Isn't it about time that the Body of Christ recognizes that ALL people are created by God and that there is no difference spiritually or mentally between males and female? It is against God to try to make one gender superior/inferior to the other. Aside from a few physical tasks that require extreme physical strength there is no difference between what men and women are capable of.

As a man, I say it is time to abolish the discrimination against half of humanity, especially since, in Christ Jesus, there is no difference. "So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:26-28)
 
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Isn't it about time that the Body of Christ recognizes that ALL people are created by God and that there is no difference spiritually or mentally between males and female?
Not really an issue in what we have been discussing.

Proponents of women's ordination often argue that not to allow the practice amounts to sex discrimination and that it means women are considered inferior. Nothing could be further from the truth for the great majority of Christians and churches that maintain the historic standards for ordination.
 
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Not really an issue in what we have been discussing.

Proponents of women's ordination often argue that not to allow the practice amounts to sex discrimination and that it means women are considered inferior. Nothing could be further from the truth for the great majority of Christians and churches that maintain the historic standards for ordination.
No one was arguing sex discrimination when women began serving as ministers in the Society of Friends more than 300 years ago.
 
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No one was arguing sex discrimination when women began serving as ministers in the Society of Friends more than 300 years ago.
So what? That's the argument today in today's society which is emphatic about "equality."

It was also the issue with the poster whose message I replied to.
 
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That does appear to be the main claim made by advocates pf women's ordination. And why wouldn't it be, when Scripture and Tradition are solidly on the side of the opposite POV?

I don't think Scripture is of the opposite POV at all.

The world of the OT and NT appears to have been mostly male dominated - often it says "tell the men", "call the men", "the men have sinned". It lists various men, but rarely their wives, sisters or daughter. When Jesus fed a large crowd we read "the number was 5.000 men - not counting women and children". That says it all; women were 2nd, or even 3rd class citizens. The Pharisees used to daily thank God that they weren't women.
Girls were the responsibility of their husbands until they could be married off - boys could usefully go out to work and bring money in, and were the heirs. Women could be divorced on the whim of their husbands, could not be educated, were unreliable witnesses in court and could not give evidence, and no doubt much else besides. It's almost like men had a "we were created first so we're the best" type of attitude.

Yet God didn't always take any notice of what "should" happen - he called Miriam to be a prophet, Rahab to save the spies, Deborah to be judge over the whole nation, Huldah to give a prophecy which would case a mini revival. The nation was saved from destruction by Esther and David's line continued after Ruth proposed to Boaz.
When he came to live on earth, God, in Jesus, taught, healed and affirmed women. He revealed that he was the Messiah to a woman, and let her go and tell her whole town. He let a woman sit at his feet, in the place reserved for male student Rabbis. He called an unclean woman "daughter". He reminded men that his Father had made men and women in his own image and chose an "unreliable" women to be the first witness to the resurrection.
After the ascension, the early church continued to affirm women. They were with the disciples before Pentecost and hosted gatherings of believers. Priscilla taught Apollos, Lydia, it seems, was one of the founder members of the church at Philippi, a church which had deaconesses; Phoebe was a deacon, Philip's 4 daughters prophesied and Paul acknowledged that he owed much to his female co workers.
The society then may have been still largely male dominated, but Jesus showed everyone a new way - women were able to pray, talk to God and proclaim his word, just as much as men were.

Jesus told his followers to love as he loved, and his church should have been setting an example to the world over the years; showing that God loves everyone and that all our gifts are from him. Yet it seems to have stepped back into the world of the OT, insisting that there are certain things that women are not allowed to do.

From what is happening today, and has been for many years, it seems that God doesn't agree with their assessment of things.
 
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And tradition doesn't always have the final word - otherwise the disciples would have remained under the Jewish law, offering animal sacrifices for their sins instead of preaching the cross and forgiveness.
 
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Albion

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I don't think Scripture is of the opposite POV at all.

The world of the OT and NT appears to have been mostly male dominated - often it says "tell the men", "call the men", "the men have sinned". It lists various men, but rarely their wives, sisters or daughter.
Aren't you saying that the Bible is sexist and unreliable or at least not applicable to our times? How does that differ from the point that was made about proponents of women's ordination often making their case on the basis of something other than Scripture and Tradition?

Yet God didn't always take any notice of what "should" happen - he called Miriam to be a prophet, Rahab to save the spies, Deborah to be judge over the whole nation, Huldah to give a prophecy which would case a mini revival.
So now the word of God IS definitive. (??). Anyway you didn't name a single person there who was a deacon or presbyter, I noticed.
 
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So what? That's the argument today in today's society which is emphatic about "equality."

And I’m not hearing sex discrimination as a major argument for female priests/pastors.

It was also the issue with the poster whose message I replied to.

Yes, and I’m simply pointing out that historically that wasn’t the case.
 
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