The world as a simulation

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I was thinking... is the best way of looking at the world as a simulation in which many things are caused by random chance/people/etc, some things are caused by Satan and his fallen angels, and some things are caused by God's intervention?

I think I have been told before "the best way of looking at things is that God causes and is in control of everything", but although it might be best to think that... I don't think that's necessarily accurate.
 

Halbhh

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I was thinking... is the best way of looking at the world as a simulation in which many things are caused by random chance/people/etc, some things are caused by Satan and his fallen angels, and some things are caused by God's intervention?

I think I have been told before "the best way of looking at things is that God causes and is in control of everything", but although it might be best to think that... I don't think that's necessarily accurate.

In the first paragraph, I'd either remove the word 'simulation' or replace it with 'like a simulation' (similar to a system that obeys laws and thus can partly be computationally predicted, short term (like short term weather forecasting), even if there is a random element that prevents long-term determinism) -- I'd remove 'simulation' as is, because this 'reality' we live in is very real, too. It's real life and real death of real bodies, and we do real actions (or lack thereof), and there is real good done, and at times real evil (intentional harm against others).

Our actions have real effects. Real outcomes. Real consequences.

Because of this real situation of real life and real death, we can truly learn and truly change over time (potentially), even though we ultimately need to rely on the crucial change done to us and for us by Christ our Savior.

I strongly object to that popular wording/idea phrased as "the best way of looking at things is that God causes and is in control of everything" because it's inviting anyone young in faith to merely look and see around them the evil and awful reality of death of innocents and conclude that since "God causes and is in control of everything" then logically God is 'evil or else does not exist'.

That's the logical implication that follows from the bad wording "God causes and is in control of everything".

Also that wording contradicts scripture to the best of my understanding.

We are told over and over about choices between two different paths we can take, in scriptures, in both Old and New Testaments.

The term you've heard -- "free will" -- is an effort to point out the error in that wording "God causes and is in control of everything". Instead of puppets or robots, we have real/genuine autonomy. (not just an appearance of autonomy)

Adam and Eve were actually able to actually choose whether to trust the serpent more than God. They were not controlled. They were not made to chose badly by God.

They were able to actually choose themselves. (We all (or most all) make that choice they made, and so we need a Redeemer, desperately! Praise God for Christ our Savior)
 
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Halbhh

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Often people do reach conclusions from isolated verses or isolated passages in scripture to end up with a wording "God causes and is in control of everything".

For instance, Psalm 139.

If a person reads several verses... (so wonderful too!)

Or if one reads through (millions likely have) until David is talking about the enemies and then stops reading there (before the end)....

Either way, we'd think to use a wording "God causes and is in control of everything"

But....if you continue reading fully with humble listening, then you end up with a different meaning for the entire song 139. It's a prayer, a request, and poetically worded.

You encounter the last 2 verses, and if you are really listening (instead of naturally like most people wanting/trying to be the one doing the talking instead of the scripture being the one doing the talking) then in that real listening, the real meaning comes across!
 
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SkyWriting

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I think I have been told before "the best way of looking at things is that God causes and is in control of everything", but although it might be best to think that... I don't think that's necessarily accurate.

I think that is the most accurate, but not the best way.
 
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Halbhh

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I think that is the most accurate, but not the best way.
If you would be so kind, and I know it's asking a lot, I hope you will consider the life-and-death concern I raise above in post #2, how this idea, even if worded a bit differently (that idea that "God causes all things that happen, including all evils, etc."), the idea can be deadly to young believers. We are not to casually destroy the faith of others with our mere abstractions (in this case a very incomplete and thus wrong one).
 
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SkyWriting

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If you would be so kind, and I know it's asking a lot, I hope you will consider the life-and-death concern I raise above in post #2, how this idea, even if worded a bit differently (that idea that "God causes all things that happen, including all evils, etc."), the idea can be deadly to young believers. We are not to casually destroy the faith of others with our mere abstractions (in this case a very incomplete and thus wrong one).

Naturally, since I believe God controls each atom in the Cosmos, I feel He is in charge of winning all souls to Jesus and nothing I say will change that course. That's my view of accuracy and destiny.

Proverbs 16:9
The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.

Matthew 6:34
“Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

Isaiah 45:6-7
That people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the Lord, and there is no other. I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things.

Romans 8:28
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Isaiah 14:24
The Lord of hosts has sworn: “As I have planned, so shall it be, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand,

Proverbs 19:21
Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand.

Isaiah 41:10
Fear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.

Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.

Joshua 1:9
Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be frightened, and do not be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go.”

Proverbs 16:4
The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

Psalm 115:3
Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases.

Psalm 22:28
For kingship belongs to the Lord, and he rules over the nations.

Job 12:10
In his hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of all mankind.

Matthew 10:29
Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.

Revelation 1:17
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last,

Psalm 34:7
The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him, and delivers them.

1 Peter 5:7
Casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you.
 
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Halbhh

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Naturally, since I believe God controls each atom in the Cosmos, I feel He is in charge of winning all souls to Jesus and nothing I say will change that course. That's my view of accuracy and destiny.

Proverbs 16:9
The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.

Matthew 6:34
“Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

Isaiah 45:6-7
That people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the Lord, and there is no other. I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things.

Romans 8:28
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Isaiah 14:24
The Lord of hosts has sworn: “As I have planned, so shall it be, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand,

Proverbs 19:21
Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand.

Isaiah 41:10
Fear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.

Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.

Joshua 1:9
Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be frightened, and do not be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go.”

Proverbs 16:4
The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

Psalm 115:3
Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases.

Psalm 22:28
For kingship belongs to the Lord, and he rules over the nations.

Job 12:10
In his hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of all mankind.

Matthew 10:29
Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.

Revelation 1:17
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last,

Psalm 34:7
The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him, and delivers them.

1 Peter 5:7
Casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you.

Ok, if you truly believe in Jesus, risen, and do as He said, I'm not worried for you at all. I feel though that this idea (individual predestination without choice) is dangerous to any young in the faith, because I read in scripture it is possible to falter in faith, and even to become lost and wander away, and that sin can build on itself, when we fall under temptation, if we do not repent. I think that Christ gave us the prayer He gave us (in Matthew ch 6) because we really do need it. Even if you think someone's salvation is already set in stone, and nothing could change it, shouldn't you still be cautious not to teach a mere doctrine (individual predestinationor double predestination) that could help cause some young believer to stumble just in case the doctrine is incomplete or has an error? The scriptures are clearly true, but a docrine is a separate idea we use to interpret (sometimes it even can filter) and add meaning.

(anyone know why my spell checker doesn't work anymore?lol)
 
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SkyWriting

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Even if you think someone's salvation is already set in stone, and nothing could change it, shouldn't you still be cautious not to teach a mere doctrine (individual predestinaion or double predestinaion) that could help cause some young believer to stumble just in case the doctrine is incomplete or has an error?

Philippians 4:6-7
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 5:7
Casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you.

Matthew 6:25-34
“Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life? And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. ...

1 Peter 5:6-7
Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you, casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you.
 
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Halbhh

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Philippians 4:6-7
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 5:7
Casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you.

Matthew 6:25-34
“Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life? And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. ...

1 Peter 5:6-7
Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you, casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you.


Why did Christ say this if salvation is already predetermined for these 'little ones' --

2 "It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble. "

If both our and their salvation is already set, why give this instruction at all?

Why would Paul write the chapter 1 Corinthians 8 NIV ?



The way to really understand each verse you quote is by reading through fully those chapters they are in with a real willingness to hear (that we listen to Him in order to hear).
 
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SkyWriting

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Why did Christ say this if salvation is already predetermined for these 'little ones' --

2 "It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble. "

If both our and their salvation is already set, why give this instruction at all?

Why would Paul write the chapter 1 Corinthians 8 NIV ?



The way to really understand each verse you quote is by reading through fully those chapters they are in with a real willingness to hear (that we listen to Him in order to hear).


Each of us follow our individual path to God and using different methods that work best.
 
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I was thinking... is the best way of looking at the world as a simulation in which many things are caused by random chance/people/etc, some things are caused by Satan and his fallen angels, and some things are caused by God's intervention?

To me, it seems that this first death that is called life, is like simulation, or like the Matric in the movie Matrix. Here we can experience good and evil, through our body, while the soul is in safe and can only be destroyed by God.
 
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I was thinking... is the best way of looking at the world as a simulation in which many things are caused by random chance/people/etc, some things are caused by Satan and his fallen angels, and some things are caused by God's intervention?

I think I have been told before "the best way of looking at things is that God causes and is in control of everything", but although it might be best to think that... I don't think that's necessarily accurate.
Off the top of my head, I might say that in the end, the Lord is in control, but he allows things to happen.
 
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