The works Jesus did and us as disciples.

[NewCreation17]

I have read all the posts again this morning, and I will pray for healing for myself...lung problems. They are actually feeling much better.

My big question still surfaces at times, why did my son die of pancreatic cancer even with all the prayers for healing and laying on of hands?

Sister, I am sorry for you loss. I do not know the answer. But I can assure you GOD loves you and your son. And this scripture came to my mind

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Isaiah 57:1 ►
Parallel Verses
New Living Translation
Good people pass away; the godly often die before their time. But no one seems to care or wonder why. No one seems to understand that God is protecting them from the evil to come.

My big question still surfaces at times, why did my son die of pancreatic cancer even with all the prayers for healing and laying on of hands?

 

[rocknanchor]

My big question still surfaces at times, why did my son die of pancreatic cancer even with all the prayers for healing and laying on of hands?

Precious Pilgrim, my prayers are with you, my wife just lost one of her sons two years ago. It is very difficult at times. May the Spirit guide our hearts, amen!

Why is this also difficult to say. I believe there are major loose ends reverberating throughout Pentecostalism’s message that leads the babes’ astray.

First of all, to date, I do not operate in this gift. I wish I had. Back in May of 1995, I was 1800-miles from home and my natural father lay sick, also of pancreatic cancer in the hospital, a day or so from his passing. Long story short, is after visiting him there I had to return to work and over the phone finally convinced a reluctant mother to go seek out the AOG pastor to go and pray for him. He did, and dad responded happily, though he could not speak.

It was a bad case from the start, and he never recovered. But that glimmer of hope we do keep as sacred, hoping the outcome connects. We don’t hear why things fail much, only why they succeed. We are rich on the giving end, but not entirely. Okay, the problems, ,

To believe is fascinating, but some may say it isn’t right to think the thoughts of necessary belief. But actually, that may be true. Has anyone within the sound of considering divine intervention not been aware of those words?

“Oh ye of little faith”?

Yet we forget just a few short studies ago find ourselves agreeing with the Apostle,

“, , I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think” (Romans 12:3)

But the conflict of humility against fortitude causes us to fail to decide when again, right back to the message of strength of whether we should agree with the humble, or when he rallies the flock?

“, , I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, , “ (1 Corinthians 13:2)

But look again at these two concerning an issue, a problem I’ve emphasized from our encouraging post from NewCreation17

Authority to do all the works Jesus did and greater (It is GODs will EVERY BELIEVER do all the works Jesus did and greater to His glory and that all might believe in Jesus' name)

Continuing here, I am looking for how we fit into the “greater” that is also emphasized here,

and your faith will dictate the level of "greater works"

Oh yes, as good as this is, it has driven the reader off course (emphasized). Why is there seldom a proper perspective presented when Pentecostals bring up this passage in John 14:12? Are we too quick to forget the Master’s declaration that forges our correct stance?

“Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.” (John 13:16)

Have you possibly put the two together yet? I ask you to consider this look at the same version’s close in Luke,

"A pupil is not above his teacher; but everyone, after he has been fully trained, will be like his teacher.” (Luke 6:40)

There it is, is it not? It isn’t the euphoric stumbling of greater miracles we are to expect at all, but Jesus squarely defined what He meant on the back-half of the comment, “

“, , because I go unto my Father."

That is the only reason they are greater. Forget there being greater works child of God, we are not to elevate above the Master. Who do we think we are? It’s because of Jesus, mortal man can do the SAME works. Have we forgotten one of his attributes?

“, , for I am meek and lowly” (Matthew 11:29)

It’s as though the Father in heaven has broadcast the message from one end of creation to the other; from the evil

“, , who are you? (Acts 19:15)

To the Church pillars,

“, , what we are in word by letters when absent, such persons we are also in deed when present.” (2 Corinthians 10:11)

The success granted NewCreation17 who comes back a fighting warrior is because of his persistence of refusing to forget (Thanks be to God),

“

I keep a sticky in my wallet to remind me that It is GODs will, so I can speak in authority,

But in all his success, has NewCreation17 clinched Luke’s “same” as perfection in 6:40?

“Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside.” (Luke 4:14)

Please understand, I am not trying to take down here, we simply need to know the Lord’s will, that is all I attempt to understand. May the Spirit be our minister.

“, , gifts of healing by that one Spirit,” (1 Corinthians 12:9)

I had other some else to add but it doesn't come to mind.

God bless!

 

[quietbloke]

God bless 'rocknanchor' and all. May your day be blessed!

 

[musicalpilgrim]

Precious Pilgrim, my prayers are with you, my wife just lost one of her sons two years ago. It is very difficult at times. May the Spirit guide our hearts, amen!

Thank you for sharing this, my son died Feb' last year...

First of all, to date, I do not operate in this gift. I wish I had. Back in May of 1995, I was 1800-miles from home and my natural father lay sick, also of pancreatic cancer in the hospital,

It is so good of you to take the time, I am studying all you have written and will pray it through. Since my son died I have been learning what the Bible says Spiritual gifts...I know losing my son is drawing me closer to him, I know my need of God. May he bless us with his presence, In Jesus name

 

[NewCreation17]

Precious Pilgrim, my prayers are with you, my wife just lost one of her sons two years ago. It is very difficult at times. May the Spirit guide our hearts, amen!

Why is this also difficult to say. I believe there are major loose ends reverberating throughout Pentecostalism’s message that leads the babes’ astray.

First of all, to date, I do not operate in this gift. I wish I had. Back in May of 1995, I was 1800-miles from home and my natural father lay sick, also of pancreatic cancer in the hospital, a day or so from his passing. Long story short, is after visiting him there I had to return to work and over the phone finally convinced a reluctant mother to go seek out the AOG pastor to go and pray for him. He did, and dad responded happily, though he could not speak.

It was a bad case from the start, and he never recovered. But that glimmer of hope we do keep as sacred, hoping the outcome connects. We don’t hear why things fail much, only why they succeed. We are rich on the giving end, but not entirely. Okay, the problems, ,

To believe is fascinating, but some may say it isn’t right to think the thoughts of necessary belief. But actually, that may be true. Has anyone within the sound of considering divine intervention not been aware of those words?

“Oh ye of little faith”?

Yet we forget just a few short studies ago find ourselves agreeing with the Apostle,

“, , I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think” (Romans 12:3)

But the conflict of humility against fortitude causes us to fail to decide when again, right back to the message of strength of whether we should agree with the humble, or when he rallies the flock?

“, , I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, , “ (1 Corinthians 13:2)

But look again at these two concerning an issue, a problem I’ve emphasized from our encouraging post from NewCreation17



Continuing here, I am looking for how we fit into the “greater” that is also emphasized here,



Oh yes, as good as this is, it has driven the reader off course (emphasized). Why is there seldom a proper perspective presented when Pentecostals bring up this passage in John 14:12? Are we too quick to forget the Master’s declaration that forges our correct stance?

“Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.” (John 13:16)

Have you possibly put the two together yet? I ask you to consider this look at the same version’s close in Luke,

"A pupil is not above his teacher; but everyone, after he has been fully trained, will be like his teacher.” (Luke 6:40)

There it is, is it not? It isn’t the euphoric stumbling of greater miracles we are to expect at all, but Jesus squarely defined what He meant on the back-half of the comment, “

“, , because I go unto my Father."

That is the only reason they are greater. Forget there being greater works child of God, we are not to elevate above the Master. Who do we think we are? It’s because of Jesus, mortal man can do the SAME works. Have we forgotten one of his attributes?

“, , for I am meek and lowly” (Matthew 11:29)

It’s as though the Father in heaven has broadcast the message from one end of creation to the other; from the evil

“, , who are you? (Acts 19:15)

To the Church pillars,

“, , what we are in word by letters when absent, such persons we are also in deed when present.” (2 Corinthians 10:11)

The success granted NewCreation17 who comes back a fighting warrior is because of his persistence of refusing to forget (Thanks be to God),

“

But in all his success, has NewCreation17 clinched Luke’s “same” as perfection in 6:40?

“Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside.” (Luke 4:14)

Please understand, I am not trying to take down here, we simply need to know the Lord’s will, that is all I attempt to understand. May the Spirit be our minister.

“, , gifts of healing by that one Spirit,” (1 Corinthians 12:9)

I had other some else to add but it doesn't come to mind.

God bless!

Hey brother, I hope this helps you understand where my heart is and what I am thinking.

"Greater works" does not mean we are above our Master Jesus Christ. For it is GOD who does the works not us. But again Mark 9:23 .

Greater works, from what I understand, is the things Jesus would have continued to do If He was still on the earth, but instead, He has put His Spirit in us to continue what GOD wants to do. Let His kingdom come and His will be done.

If GOD heals a multitude of dead people (50+) at one time through one of His disciples in this day and age, it is GOD who did the miracle, not us. Even though that would be considered a "greater work", the disciple can take no credit nor glory. For it is GOD who does all things by His power.

2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Everything, from the miracles, to healing's, to prophesies, to salvation, is of GOD and not of us, lest any man should boast or think himself to be some great one.

Just because GOD did a great work through one of His disciples, that does not make the disciple greater than his Master. For it is GOD who does the work, we just believe and do GODs will. And rest assured, it is GODs will to do amazing things.

All I am saying, is believe that GOD can do anything, and know that it is GOD who does it, not us. And just because GOD does something amazing through one of His disciples, it does not make that disciple anything more than what he already was, but let us pray we understand this and never get exalted if GOD does a work through us.

And I always agree that a disciple will never, ever, be above his Master. Jesus Christ is Lord of Lords and King of Kings, above every name that is named!

 

[quietbloke]

I have never found life easy. We have had some difficult times,but as the song says'Through it all,through it all,I have learnt to trust in Jesus,. I have learnt to trust in God. I have learnt to depend upon His Word'. It is good that we can be open and honest with each other,as we trust in God's faithfulness to us.

 

[musicalpilgrim]

If GOD heals a multitude of dead people (50+) at one time through one of His disciples in this day and age, it is GOD who did the miracle, not us. Even though that would be considered a "greater work", the disciple can take no credit nor glory. For it is GOD who does all things by His power.

but let us pray we understand this and never get exalted if GOD does a work through us.

sooo true!

I have never found life easy. We have had some difficult times,but as the song says'Through it all,through it all,I have learnt to trust in Jesus,. I have learnt to trust in God. I have learnt to depend upon His Word'. It is good that we can be open and honest with each other,as we trust in God's faithfulness to us.

I feel so much the friendly Christian love, and the help in understanding, thank you dear friends in Christ Jesus

 

[quietbloke]

sooo true!



I feel so much the friendly Christian love, and the help in understanding, thank you dear friends in Christ Jesus

Thankyou so much,'musicalpilgrim' for everything you are doing to minister to others. You are helping to change lives one at a time. God bless!

 

[quietbloke]

Thankyou to all our encouragers here!

 

[rocknanchor]

If all you who will please permit what I may have missed towards this issue, peace to all.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." (John 14:12)

Spiritual checkpoint noted Lord. We simply cannot have it both ways. While NewCreation17 contends it is because of Jesus we can do greater works, sounds plausible and giving glory to God, but I submit to you, man’s very nature is on display here.

When the instruction carries us into pride rather than submission to not only who but what is considered greater, we are teaching a barrier to steadfastness and a hold on our investment.

If the instruction is because of Jesus, man is now able, then this does make the otherwise incapable-capable and a great change upon man has occurred being a benefit to those in need and the spiritual condition is intact, glory to God

But if the instruction is because of Jesus, man can do greater, the checkpoint is now a magnifier, and spiritual pride of man’s nature is now amplified.

Besides, John 21:25 closes the book and has sealed it away from such pride,

“And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written.”

I realize the havoc this could have on things as the above counter is the usual opinion of Pentecostalism. I only pray they who oppose would reconsider.

Peace and God bless!

 

[quietbloke]

If all you who will please permit what I may have missed towards this issue, peace to all.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." (John 14:12)

Spiritual checkpoint noted Lord. We simply cannot have it both ways. While NewCreation17 contends it is because of Jesus we can do greater works, sounds plausible and giving glory to God, but I submit to you, man’s very nature is on display here.

When the instruction carries us into pride rather than submission to not only who but what is considered greater, we are teaching a barrier to steadfastness and a hold on our investment.

If the instruction is because of Jesus, man is now able, then this does make the otherwise incapable-capable and a great change upon man has occurred being a benefit to those in need and the spiritual condition is intact, glory to God

But if the instruction is because of Jesus, man can do greater, the checkpoint is now a magnifier, and spiritual pride of man’s nature is now amplified.

Besides, John 21:25 closes the book and has sealed it away from such pride,

“And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written.”

I realize the havoc this could have on things as the above counter is the usual opinion of Pentecostalism. I only pray they who oppose would reconsider.

Peace and God bless!

Thankyou dear brother and peace and God's blessing to you too. qb