Obedience To The Hearing Of Faith

[Mr. M]

Romans 1:5. By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for
obedience to the faith among all nations, for his Name.

Hebrews 11:8. By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which
he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing
whither he went.

Genesis 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast
obeyed my voice.

Hebrews 5:9. And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation
unto all them that obey Him.

Hebrews 7:19. For the Law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope
did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

 

[Neogaia777]

Romans 1:5. By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for
obedience to the faith among all nations, for his Name.

Hebrews 11:8. By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which
he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing
whither he went.

Genesis 22:
15 And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done t
his thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as
the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and thy seed
shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast
obeyed my voice.

Hebrews 5:9. And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation
unto all them that obey Him.
Hebrews 7:19. For the Law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope
did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Funny that Abraham sinned, but he was called obedient, even while still being in some sins, etc...?

And not obedient to the Law of Moses, but to the rules and laws of Faith, etc...?

And is only described as, eventually and only in his old age, and near the end of his life and days, was only then said to have been "made perfect", etc...?

So is there a such thing as obeying or being obedient in our sins, and then with the promise of being made eventually perfect in time maybe...?

Maybe, etc...?

Anyway, just some of my thoughts...?

Not saying if they are right or wrong, but just throwing them out there as some food for thought, etc...

And to maybe help the discussion, etc...

God Bless!

 

[GDL]

The Work Of Faith Is Obedience

Romans 1:5. By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for
obedience to the faith among all nations, for his Name.

Hebrews 11:8. By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which
he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing
whither he went.

Genesis 22:
15 And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done t
his thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as
the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and thy seed
shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast
obeyed my voice.

Hebrews 5:9. And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation
unto all them that obey Him.
Hebrews 7:19. For the Law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope
did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Will you please explain exactly what your thread title means?

Thanks!

 

[Mr. M]

The Work Of Faith Is Obedience



Will you please explain exactly what your thread title means?

Thanks!

The Title is intended to reflect the 5 scriptures quoted in the OP#1, which is what establishes
the topic.
For example:
By faith Abraham...obeyed Hebrews 11:8

 

[GDL]

The Title is intended to reflect the 5 scriptures quoted in the OP#1, which is what establishes
the topic.
For example:
By faith Abraham...obeyed Hebrews 11:8

So obedience comes from faith - faith > obedience?

 

[Mr. M]

We demonstrate or manifest our faith, as it is written:
James 2:14. What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works?
Can that faith save him?
To what benefit are these works if they are not done as an act of obedience?
Matthew 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,
but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name,
and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.

 

[GDL]

We demonstrate or manifest or faith, as it is written:
James 2:14. What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works?
Can that faith save him?
To what benefit are these works if they are not done as an act of obedience?
Matthew 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,
but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name,
and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.

I realize I'm being technical with my questions, but interpreting language is a technical exercise.

Firstly, would you agree or disagree with my question in #5?

Next:

NET 1 John 3:23 Now this is his commandment: that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he gave us the commandment.

- God commands that we believe
- When we believe are we also obeying God?
- What comes first, believing or obeying?

Appreciate the responses.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Romans 1:5. By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for
obedience to the faith among all nations, for his Name.

Hebrews 11:8. By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which
he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing
whither he went.

Genesis 22:
15 And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done t
his thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as
the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and thy seed
shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast
obeyed my voice.

Hebrews 5:9. And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation
unto all them that obey Him.
Hebrews 7:19. For the Law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope
did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[Neogaia777]

We demonstrate or manifest or faith, as it is written:
James 2:14. What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works?
Can that faith save him?
To what benefit are these works if they are not done as an act of obedience?
Matthew 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,
but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name,
and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.

Those works, those acts of faith, are to come from true genuine faith, and not works themselves, or that come from any kind of written down rule or code, that is not written down on, or is not much more fully expressed from and/or is written down on or in persons hearts, when that person has a real true genuine faith, and it only leads to perfection in sins "in time" as part of a reward or promise of that faith, and not the works themselves, that while, if you obey even while even still in sins (that faith), will make you perfect or perfected only "in time", and only after you have shown true faith for a while, which is obedience while still in some sins, etc, if it is real true genuine faith, and not the fake kind, etc, that puts no faith whatsoever, in the works themselves, etc, but will do good works only out of faith, but that does not put any of his or her or its trust, for anything, in those works themselves, otherwise it is not true genuine faith, nor obedience by or to faith, etc...

Trust is required, and that trust is only true, or only becomes real or true, when it obeys something for a time, despite having not fully obeyed everything for a time, then once that trust is built, comes with the reward of perfection at the end, after having fully obeyed faith for a time, while still in some sins for a time, which is the obedience/trust by faith, or that comes by faith, after having obeyed by faith after a certain period of time, etc...

Trust has to built, and in order for that trust to be built, there must be something working against you despite yourself that is trying to work for you, which is sin for a time, but that once that trust in built, comes with the reward of fully completed perfection at the end, or in the end, etc, but only at or near the end, etc, and for some, maybe only on the other side, etc...

God Bless!

 

[GDL]

Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent

How do you read this - Does our belief in Jesus Christ come from God working to get us to believe - So, our belief is God's work?

 

[Mr. M]

I realize I'm being technical with my questions, but interpreting language is a technical exercise.

Faith is not a technical exercise, faith is believing that God is able to speak to you by His Word.
"Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the Word of God". So my answer to your question
would be that you consider the now 7 scriptures that I have posted (the Word of God),
and seek what He is speaking to you by that Word. Your obedience to the Spirit, as it speaks
to you through that word would be your work of faith. If you choose to share, that is what this
forum is for, if you do not, that is fine. Most people read posts without responding. This is not
a tutoring session. It is believers encouraging one another to develop their relationship with the
Lord, seeking His Will for you by His Word, Not my interpretation.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

How do you read this - Does our belief in Jesus Christ come from God working to get us to believe - So, our belief is God's work?

Through faith God works through us and lives through us. All work that matters to God and pleases God is the result of faith. This way we do all things together.

 

[Neogaia777]

I realize I'm being technical with my questions, but interpreting language is a technical exercise.

Firstly, would you agree or disagree with my question in #5?

Next:

NET 1 John 3:23 Now this is his commandment: that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he gave us the commandment.

- God commands that we believe
- When we believe are we also obeying God?
- What comes first, believing or obeying?

Appreciate the responses.

Believing and obeying while still in some sins for a time, comes first, etc...

And it is the commandments that have been from the beginning, that is more fully expressed as it is written on hearts, etc (and seared in born again consciences with a hot iron, etc, lol) and not the OT written down on paper or stone, letter of the OT Law Covenant of Moses, etc, which has no power to save or make one truly obey, but only increases and encourages the exact opposite, etc, as is the curse of it, etc...

God Bless!

 

[GDL]

Faith is not a technical exercise, faith is believing that God is able to speak to you by His Word.
"Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the Word of God". So my answer to your question
would be that you consider the now 7 scriptures that I have posted (the Word of God),
and seek what He is speaking to you by that Word. Your obedience to the Spirit, as it speaks
to you through that word would be your work of faith. If you choose to share, that is what this
forum is for, if you do not, that is fine. Most people read posts without responding. This is not
a tutoring session. It is believers encouraging one another to develop their relationship with the
Lord, seeking His Will for you by His Word, Not my interpretation.

Whoa! It wasn't my intent to start a battle, but in response:

In other words you cannot answer my questions, because you work in abstract concepts, so you offer a mild rebuke to shield your inability. Do you also make up the rules of this forum?

If you were to share in a discussion rather than to assume some tutoring need on my part, I'm certain you'd find me up to the task of the dialog.

Language is very technical & it is via language & the Spirit that we come to understand the thoughts of God accurately. I've interacted with a lot of people, ministers included, that hide behind a purported work of the Spirit in their understanding of Scripture, that can quote Scriptures, but cannot explain its meaning.

By the way, the heading of this thread is "Controversial Christian Theology." Maybe you should move it to the "I want to express myself without questions or discussion" section. Then again, you started a controversy with me, & I responded in kind, so maybe we're in the right place.

Rather stop, or try to explain to me what the Spirit has told you about the interaction between faith & obedience, so we can get to works?

 

[klutedavid]

We demonstrate or manifest or faith, as it is written:
James 2:14. What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works?
Can that faith save him?
To what benefit are these works if they are not done as an act of obedience?
Matthew 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,
but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name,
and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.

When you mentioned, 'works', are you referring to the works of the law?

Or are you referring to good works in general, those generated by the Holy Spirit?

For example, the law says to rest on the seventh day. Someone who rested on the seventh day would be performing a work of the law. Whereas, someone who helped a member of their church, would be performing a good work.

 

[Mr. M]

Rather stop, or try to explain to me what the Spirit has told you about the interaction between faith & obedience, so we can get to works?

Reading the scriptures, listening to preaching or teaching, prayer, praise, ministering, all have the same
one objective, to learn to hear the Voice of the Good Shepherd, our Master. That is how we know we are
His. That is the best explanation I can give you. To learn to hear, and obey His Voice. I believe that is
what these verses are telling us.
As to your assessment, a discussion forum is not me answering your questions, when you have not offered your understanding of any of the verses that have been posted as the topic. You are the
one turning this into 'abstract concepts' of technical language and understanding. If you are up to the
task of dialog, stop quizzing and share your understanding of the verses. I am not offering any rebuke,
I am just telling you straight; just because I originated the thread doesn't mean I have to sit here and
answer questions all evening. I am done for the evening. Thanks.

 

[Mr. M]

When you mentioned, 'works', are you referring to the works of the law?

Or are you referring to good works in general, those generated by the Holy Spirit?

For example, the law says to rest on the seventh day. Someone who rested on the seventh day would be performing a work of the law. Whereas, someone who helped a member of their church, would be performing a good work.

I am understanding by these scriptures that we are pursuing a mature relationship with the Lord.
This implies learning to hear His Voice in every situation and obeying. That is the hearing of faith.

 

[GDL]

Through faith God works through us and lives through us. All work that matters to God and pleases God is the result of faith. This way we do all things together.

Thanks for the response.

The context of this part of John 6 is God working to bring unbelievers to belief in Jesus Christ. It's my read that Jesus is telling these unbelievers that God is working to get them to believe in Jesus. In 6:44-45 Jesus explains that God is drawing (or dragging) unbelievers to Jesus by teaching them & everyone who hears & learns from God comes to Jesus (believe in Him).

I agree with what you say in the quote above. I just don't see John 6:29 expressing this.

If you see something different, let me know.

 

[GDL]

Reading the scriptures, listening to preaching or teaching, prayer, praise, ministering, all have the same
one objective, to learn to hear the Voice of the Good Shepherd, our Master. That is how we know we are
His. That is the best explanation I can give you. To learn to hear, and obey His Voice. I believe that is
what these verses are telling us.

Thanks. I understand you now. If I'd have known you were Pentecostal, I wouldn't have asked you to explain Scripture.

As to your assessment, a discussion forum is not me answering your questions, when you have not offered your understanding of any of the verses that have been posted as the topic. You are the
one turning this into 'abstract concepts' of technical language and understanding. If you are up to the
task of dialog, stop quizzing and share your understanding of the verses.

Hard to have a discussion when I didn't understand what your thread title meant to you & I didn't want to assume, so I asked. At this point I'm not certain you understand what it means or how your quoted verses apply to it. And it's more effective to discuss Scriptures when I understand the premise for the discussion & how & why you think they support your title.

We should probably leave the abstract vs. technical discussion alone.

I am not offering any rebuke,
I am just telling you straight; just because I originated the thread doesn't mean I have to sit here and
answer questions all evening. I am done for the evening. Thanks.

You're a bit defensive. I think it's because you can't answer the questions. You shouldn't react by suggesting I need a tutor.

 

[Neogaia777]

How do you read this - Does our belief in Jesus Christ come from God working to get us to believe - So, our belief is God's work?

Depends on if you want to get all bogged down in the whole discussion of absolute omniscience/sovereignty from the very beginning, or from way before it, and free will, etc...?

God Bless!