The Word of God.

Carl Emerson

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Do people personally hear His voice audibly ... I don't believe so ... now the bible does tell us there will be a time when many will prophesy ... however it will be very evident and accompanied by signs ... will be like a 2nd Pentecost and will be just before His 2nd coming and just like in the days of pentecost and there will be many many many that come to the Lord at that time.

heresy? who are we to judge?

Acts 2

17‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out My Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.

18Even on My menservants and maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.

19I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20The sun will be turned to darkness,
and the moon to blood,
before the coming of the great and glorious Day of the Lord.

21And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

So what happened to "My sheep hear my voice and they follow me" - do we have to wait for some future outpouring before this will happen again? To be fair, when Samual was spoken to, the Scripture records that "The Word of the Lord was rare in those days"

My position is that while the audible voice may be rare, a large part of His sheep hearing His voice and following Him is through the desires of His heart being implanted and experienced in our spirit. As the Scripture says "If you delight in the Lord He will give you the desires of your heart." This has the double meaning of first - giving the desires, and second - bringing the desires to fulfilment. Hearing His Word in our hearts through meditative reading of the Scripture should also be a great source of inspiration if our hearts are open.

Personally I have had too many experiences of being led by His 'still small voice' to doubt that He is leading and I am following.

Sadly folks are often wanting to discredit any claim to experiencing Him. Yet we read again and again in Scripture that He wants to break into our lives and communicate His truth for our own good. Could it be that the insistence that God is being silent in this age comes from the folks believing a theology to account for a lack of His presence with them.
 
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eleos1954

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OK so hearing God is outside your experience, but you show Grace not to judge those who claim such experiences. :)

I never have experienced it ... nor any personal christian friends of mine have never experienced it ... is it possible? of course ;o)
 
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Carl Emerson

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I never have experienced it ... nor any personal christian friends of mine have never experienced it ... is it possible? of course ;o)
Can I explain that one of the reason I am here is to encourage brothers and sisters to enjoy the excitement of a life that is interactive with God. I have shared some of my testimony here Jesus's Ministry but there is a catch 22... I don't want to draw attention to myself, but I cant be silent either.
 
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eleos1954

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So what happened to "My sheep hear my voice and they follow me" - do we have to wait for some future outpouring before this will happen again? To be fair, when Samual was spoken to, the Scripture records that "The Word of the Lord was rare in those days"

My position is that while the audible voice may be rare, a large part of His sheep hearing His voice and following Him is through the desires of His heart being implanted and experienced in our spirit. As the Scripture says "If you delight in the Lord He will give you the desires of your heart." This has the double meaning of first - giving the desires, and second - bringing the desires to fulfilment. Hearing His Word in our hearts through meditative reading of the Scripture should also be a great source of inspiration if our hearts are open.

Personally I have had too many experiences of being led by His 'still small voice' to doubt that He is leading and I am following.

Sadly folks are often wanting to discredit any claim to experience Him. Yet we read again and again in Scripture that He wants to break into our lives and communicate His truth for our own good. Could it be that the insistence that God is being silent in this age comes from the folks believing a theology to account for a lack of His presence with them.

My position is that while the audible voice may be rare, a large part of His sheep hearing His voice and following Him is through the desires of His heart being implanted and experienced in our spirit.

I would agree. However, I believe any prompting one may experience in their heart/mind is the Holy Spirit working and if so, then there's scripture brought to mind or a "go study this" leading. Sometimes I get intuitions, but dismiss them ... unless it's related to safety .... then I pay attention to them. Kind of strange to describe ;o)
 
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eleos1954

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Can I explain that one of the reason I am here is to encourage brothers and sisters to enjoy the excitement of a life that is interactive with God. I have shared some of my testimony here Jesus's Ministry but there is a catch 22... I don't want to draw attention to myself, but I cant be silent either.

Went and read this ... I was delivered from a non-fatal medical condition when I was about 28 years old, wasn't much in the Lord then. I really didn't pray ... just said to God ... ok ... so I have this going on, I'm not going to the doctor any more about it, so please help me handle it .... about 4 months later gone and has never returned, I'm 65 now. ;o)
 
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Neogaia777

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Now I don't hear from Him/Them "all the time" like constantly or anything, but I do hear from Them, even more so now...

And it's because I feel I know Them now... and true, it started when I did not know Him/Them so well, but it was as They were teaching me to know Them that I started hearing from Them, and even more so now, now that I know Them a little bit better now than I used to... But that is all due to Them and not me...

I say "Them" because their is more than one who speaks, at least for me...

I Hear sometimes hear Christ and the Father through Christ, and sometimes the Holy Spirit, and sometimes both, and then... Then only every once in great while now, the enemy sometimes, from time to time...

And angels sometimes, or from time to time, but I don't want it to sound confusing...

This was very confusing when it first started, but is not so much, or as much, now...

That is all due to Them and not me as well, He/They helped me to sort all this out...

But my word or words are not "The Word of God"... Necessarily or all the time, ect...

If I say that I think a thing I say is "from God" even, it is usually not directly, I wouldn't say, a lot of the time... and I would sincerely hope that one or anyone would most definitely check what I say with Scripture and if it doesn't line up, get rid of it and don't give it another thought... And please let me know as well, ect...

But if it does, or even if it does, I would not say it is "The Word of God" or is any kind of "New Word of God" (anyway) (ect)...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Now I don't hear from Him/Them "all the time" like constantly or anything, but I do hear from Them, even more so now...

And it's because I feel I know Them now... and true, it started when I did not know Him/Them so well, but it was as They were teaching me to know Them that I started hearing from Them, and even more so now, now that I know Them a little bit better now than I used to... But that is all due to Them and not me...

I say "Them" because their is more than one who speaks, at least for me...

I Hear sometimes hear Christ and the Father through Christ, and sometimes the Holy Spirit, and sometimes both, and then... Then only every once in great while now, the enemy sometimes, from time to time...

And angels sometimes, or from time to time, but I don't want it to sound confusing...

This was very confusing when it first started, but is not so much, or as much, now...

That is all due to Them and not me as well, He/They helped me to sort all this out...

But my word or words are not "The Word of God"... Necessarily or all the time, ect...

If I say that I think a thing I say is "from God" even, it is usually not directly, I wouldn't say, a lot of the time... and I would sincerely hope that one or anyone would most definitely check what I say with Scripture and if it doesn't line up, get rid of it and don't give it another thought... And please let me know as well, ect...

But if it does, or even if it does, I would not say it is "The Word of God" or is any kind of "New Word of God" (anyway) (ect)...

God Bless!
If I come up with or say something that may "seem new", even to me, upon looking in Scripture (again) (and again) I find that it was "already all there the entire time", right under our noses, we just didn't see it before, ect...

That is what I mean by or about it not being "new", or anything or nothing new, ect...

God Bless!
 
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Carl Emerson

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My position is that while the audible voice may be rare, a large part of His sheep hearing His voice and following Him is through the desires of His heart being implanted and experienced in our spirit.

I would agree. However, I believe any prompting one may experience in their heart/mind is the Holy Spirit working and if so, then there's scripture brought to mind or a "go study this" leading. Sometimes I get intuitions, but dismiss them ... unless it's related to safety .... then I pay attention to them. Kind of strange to describe ;o)

Yes there is a learning curve, and the ability to seperate noise from Him can take some time.
 
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Erik Nelson

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In John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" we translate the Greek Logos as "Word". Logos carries some philosophical connotations in Greek that became incorporated in early rabbinical thought as noted by Philo of Alexandria. Heraclitus in the 400s BC, defined logos as a principle of order, "all entities come to be in accordance with this Logos". Logos is the root of logic for us today. So this is where we capitalize "Word of God" so as to provide context that we are discussing Jesus as the "Word of God", as opposed to the scriptures as "γραφάς" graphas, or writings.
Isn't an actual word-for-word literal translation of the Greek:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was before the God, and God was the Word"
 
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Carl Emerson

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Can we focus on the issue of non-mention in Scripture.

We use the scripture to weigh the validity of words and experiences claimed to be Godly.

But what about experiences that have no mention in scripture?

You will notice that the spirits of the prophets are to be subject to the prophets not the teachers.

This means that the truth or otherwise of utterances was to be spiritually discerned.

The problem with this is that our churches generally are not structured to do this.
The fellowship of the prophets that should serve the church in this way generally does not exist.

The foundation of unity needed for discernment gifts to operate has in most cases been replaced by top down management, so that 'the least', who may be carrying God's word of discernment, are not heard.

And here we are heading into a time of great deception without these key means to seperate the true from the false.

In most cases then we have spiritually blind churches susceptible to deception.

This is a serious issue with little mention or discussion at a time when we know false signs and wonders will increase and potentially deceive the very elect.

Those with a gift of prophesy should collectively have this key role in churches but in most cases we are in total ignorance of whats going down spiritually because the prophetic voice has been muted through ignorance or worse still silenced.
 
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Radagast

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Others insist that the Scripture has replaced the Word of God. These folk do not give any credence to someone claiming that they "hear God's Voice" regardless of whether the claims align with the teachings of scripture.

Private revelation can't be sensibly debated. Whatever you think God told you, I can always say that God revealed to me that you're wrong.

Partly for that reason, personal prophecy (prophetic utterance) is off-topic in all CF site forums, according to the CF rules.

But I invite all those people who think they are 100% infallible prophets to go through some kind of independent test elsewhere. I might even support Deuteronomy 18:20-22 being literally applied in such a case.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Isn't an actual word-for-word literal translation of the Greek:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was before the God, and God was the Word"

"before God" is a confusing rendering, in Greek we have ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, "the Word was with the God". This word pros, can mean "before" in the sense that one "stands before another", that is, to be face-to-face with. Which is why some have argued that "the Word was face-to-face with God" is one way to translate this. The Word isn't anterior to God (which is why translating this as "before" is confusing), the Word is with God, the Word is side-by-side, face-to-face, equal to, standing beside, with, God. Why? Because the Word is God.

As for καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος, "and God was the Logos" this is a clunky reading in English where, basically everyone, agrees that a faithful rendering of this, coherently in English, would be "and the Word was God", as "God" here without the definite article is being used to describe the Logos.

Hence the historic interpretation:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God (the Father), and the Word was God (Divine)."

Thus God (the Father) and His Logos (Christ, the Son) are both here, and are of one equal substance, the Word is of the same Being as the Father, He is God of God as we read in the Nicene Creed.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Radagast

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As for καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος, "and God was the Logos" this is a clunky reading in English

Not just clunky, but actually deceptive, in that specific Greek rules about articles are in play here, and the "translation" has swapped subject and predicate (in English the first noun is the subject, and in Greek the one with the article is).

where, basically everyone, agrees that a faithful rendering of this, coherently in English, would be "and the Word was God"

Exactly.

I'm getting a little sick of people who think you can just replace every Greek word by what they think is an English equivalent, ignoring all grammar rules, and somehow get something meaningful. Translation doesn't work that way.
 
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Radagast

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The Word of God is Christ. Scriptures are just Scriptures

I think it makes life easier if we distinguish "word" and "Word."

The Word is God the Son, true God of true God, incarnate as Christ for our salvation.

The word of God is the holy Scriptures, inspired by God, God-breathed for our edification and training in righteousness (Deuteronomy 8:3, Matthew 4:4, 2 Timothy 3:16).
 
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Friends one issue that underpins much of the polarisation among believers on this forum is how we view and handle scripture.

We usually agree that the scripture is preserved by God to be a reliable and accurate for every generation.

Most of us trust that the church fathers down through the ages made the right judgements regarding what was included in the Scripture.

We usually agree that the scripture is an absolute authority regarding matters of truth and practice.

But...

There is much less clarity about the relationship between the Scripture and the "Word of God"

Some see that the Word of God went forth before time to establish all that is, and continues to hold together the very fabric of creation. This Word of God is also active within the believers as sheep hearing the voice of the Shepherd.

Others insist that the Scripture has replaced the Word of God. These folk do not give any credence to someone claiming that they "hear God's Voice" regardless of whether the claims align with the teachings of scripture.

Others insist that anything not particularly mentioned in Scripture is not from God.

Scripture records the early church hearing God's word personally so when this was meant to have ceased is not quite clear.

These early believers hosted the greatest revival ever seen yet they did not have the Scripture as we know it.

Where does all this leave us?

Can we legitimately expect to be sheep who hear His voice personally saying "this is the way - walk Ye in it" or must we be "Readers of His Word" and that is it.

Some traditions even insist that only the clergy can tell us what what the scripture is saying.

Where is Jesus in all of this - is it heresy to claim that He is a friend that speaks to us direct.

I believe God can talk to us but it is not exactly in words sometimes, and it is not to build doctrine or add something new to the Scriptures. They are personal messages to us in our walk with Him as a means to follow Him, and or to protect us, and or to know something important within the Bible. God has in the past talked to me before several times using His Word in a powerful way.

For example:

Back when I lived in the state I grew up in: There was this baby deer that was living in my back yard once for about two weeks. It's mother would come by and feed it and then leave. However, it would make noises to it's mother at night, which would sometimes make it hard for me to sleep. So the one day, I was presented with an opportunity to get rid of this baby deer safely. So I decided to put on my black rubber work gloves and go outside in order to grab him gently and throw him over the chain link fence back into the forest where it's mother was at.

So I walked really slow and got really close to him; And just when I was about to grab him, he quickly bolted to the front of the house. This scared me a little, because I did not want the little guy getting hit by any cars in the front of the house, seeing I live on a busy street. However, when I got to the front of the house, he did not go near the traffic of the road, which was good. So he started to move back towards the back yard again. However, this time he went into the neighbor's back yard. This was perfect because they had a gate to their back yard so I could close it behind me, ensuring my capture of the little guy.

So I pinned him behind some stacked up wood behind the neighbor's shed and I grabbed him. He was kicking and screaming as I held him in my hands; And then I threw him over the chain link fence back into the forest. He landed safely on the other side of the fence; And later, I eventually seen him reunite with his mother (Which put me at ease).

However, afterwards I kept thinking to myself of how scared this baby deer was when I was holding it in my hands. I mean, it had no idea what I was going to do it. It probably thought I was trying to either eat it or hurt it in some way. In fact, I could actually feel the fear dripping off of this poor little guy.

Anyways, later that evening, when I was watching a video on "YouTube" by Chuck Missler, as per my usual routine thru out the week (back then), he told me about the following passages ...

Isaiah 13:11a - "And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity ..."

Isaiah 13:13 - "Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger."

Isaiah 13:14 - "And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land."

So I said to myself. What is a "roe"?
So I looked it up on the internet and low and behold, a roe is a baby deer! Here I was just a few hours earlier chasing a baby deer and I could feel it's fear in the fact that I was chasing it. This was a passage that God wanted to show me. He wanted to show me that the world will one day run in fear as the chased roe when God (i.e. Jesus Christ) will return to end all evil and iniquity. It was powerful! Coincidence you might say?

There were more of these kinds of things that took place.
There was a time when me and my fiancé
at the time (who is now my wife) had run into the same message over and over and over. We went into a book store and opened a book and it talked about God's forgiveness. We went to church and the part of the preach was on forgiveness. We kept seeing forgiveness repeated to us throughout the time my fiancé was visiting me from her country; This all led up to a situation where forgiveness came into play personally within something that happened during our trip. It hit us personally.
 
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Friends one issue that underpins much of the polarisation among believers on this forum is how we view and handle scripture.

We usually agree that the scripture is preserved by God to be a reliable and accurate for every generation.

Most of us trust that the church fathers down through the ages made the right judgements regarding what was included in the Scripture.

We usually agree that the scripture is an absolute authority regarding matters of truth and practice.

But...

There is much less clarity about the relationship between the Scripture and the "Word of God"

Some see that the Word of God went forth before time to establish all that is, and continues to hold together the very fabric of creation. This Word of God is also active within the believers as sheep hearing the voice of the Shepherd.

Others insist that the Scripture has replaced the Word of God. These folk do not give any credence to someone claiming that they "hear God's Voice" regardless of whether the claims align with the teachings of scripture.

Others insist that anything not particularly mentioned in Scripture is not from God.

Scripture records the early church hearing God's word personally so when this was meant to have ceased is not quite clear.

These early believers hosted the greatest revival ever seen yet they did not have the Scripture as we know it.

Where does all this leave us?

Can we legitimately expect to be sheep who hear His voice personally saying "this is the way - walk Ye in it" or must we be "Readers of His Word" and that is it.

Some traditions even insist that only the clergy can tell us what what the scripture is saying.

Where is Jesus in all of this - is it heresy to claim that He is a friend that speaks to us direct.

The Bible speaks of the Living Word, and the communicated Word of God (which can either be in written form or in spoken form - depending on the text). One has to look at the context to determine which one the Bible is talking about. For example: John 1:1 is talking about the "Living Word" which is Jesus Christ (or the second person of the Godhead or the Trinity). 1 Peter 1:25 refers to the communicated Word of God. "But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." (1 Peter 1:25).
 
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Carl Emerson

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The Word of God is Christ. Scriptures are just Scriptures

Yes Jesus is The Word.
Yes the scriptures are the word which becomes the Word when He speaks through it.

What then is the Word He promises in Is 30

20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction, yet your Teacher will not hide himself anymore, but your eyes shall see your Teacher. 21 And your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying, “This is the way, walk in it,” when you turn to the right or when you turn to the left.

Is this not His word to us directly as we walk in His way as His sheep hearing His voice?
 
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