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The Word of God.

Discussion in 'Christian Scriptures' started by Carl Emerson, Jul 12, 2019 at 6:46 AM.

  1. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Friends one issue that underpins much of the polarisation among believers on this forum is how we view and handle scripture.

    We usually agree that the scripture is preserved by God to be a reliable and accurate for every generation.

    Most of us trust that the church fathers down through the ages made the right judgements regarding what was included in the Scripture.

    We usually agree that the scripture is an absolute authority regarding matters of truth and practice.

    But...

    There is much less clarity about the relationship between the Scripture and the "Word of God"

    Some see that the Word of God went forth before time to establish all that is, and continues to hold together the very fabric of creation. This Word of God is also active within the believers as sheep hearing the voice of the Shepherd.

    Others insist that the Scripture has replaced the Word of God. These folk do not give any credence to someone claiming that they "hear God's Voice" regardless of whether the claims align with the teachings of scripture.

    Others insist that anything not particularly mentioned in Scripture is not from God.

    Scripture records the early church hearing God's word personally so when this was meant to have ceased is not quite clear.

    These early believers hosted the greatest revival ever seen yet they did not have the Scripture as we know it.

    Where does all this leave us?

    Can we legitimately expect to be sheep who hear His voice personally saying "this is the way - walk Ye in it" or must we be "Readers of His Word" and that is it.

    Some traditions even insist that only the clergy can tell us what what the scripture is saying.

    Where is Jesus in all of this - is it heresy to claim that He is a friend that speaks to us direct.
     
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  2. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    It sounds like you may be confusing some of the references to the Word with the word of God. The Word with a capital W is referring to Jesus. John 1:1-4 and John 1:14 are referring to Jesus, notice the capital W here. The word of God with a lower case W is referring to the gospel as we see in John 15:3 and other scriptures where the lower case W is used. So the references to creation are attributed to Jesus not the gospel. God bless :)
     
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  3. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi carl,

    Is it your position that believers should trust anyone who comes up to us and says that God spoke to them about something?

    God bless,
    In Christ, ted
     
  4. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Actually I am not at this stage disclosing my position, just opening the matter for discussion.
     
  5. section9+1

    section9+1 Well-Known Member

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    If someone feels like the Lord spoke something to them and for them and about them, I see that as their business and have nothing to say. But if someone says the Lord told them something concerning me, I flat don't believe it. If God wants me to know something he can tell me himself. Even if the Lord told them something by some special revelation about people in general, I discount it. I don't see any prophets.
     
  6. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I hear God's voice and hear God's voice very clearly a lot of the time, but am still not saying, and absolutely "will not say", that the words I say of publish or come up with are on or are of the same level and especially authority that belongs to Holy Scripture and only Holy Scripture alone...

    I get lot's of "revelations", and maybe some of you might have seen that on here maybe... but even I always "test" what I hear and what I have with and against Holy Scripture always, ALWAYS, and if it conflicts at all, I will reject it or toss it out or throw it away, and/or move on to something else, or onto a different idea or concept or theory always...

    I am not, and will not ever say, that all and everything I say/write whatever, comes directly from God always or all the time, even if and when, much of the time, a lot of it does, ect...

    I think anyone willing to do or say this is being very bold, and maybe way, way, too bold, and might be delusional... And maybe deceived also, ect... False maybe, also, ect...

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019 at 8:11 AM
  7. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I know Scripture, I may not have a lot of it memorized, exactly, but know it is "in me", and know that much of what is in me and comes out of me comes from there or that, but I "test it" always anyway, and I will not say that my words are anything "new" or are a or are new revelations from God... If anything they are "old" more than anything... And come and came from my knowing and what I know of Scripture, ect...

    IOW's, my words, my ideas, or whatever, I will not say that they are the direct Word of God unless they are 100% and completely in line with Scripture... and even then I am still very hesitant and reluctant, and will not say they are the "Word of God", and will only say, they "might be", or possibly might be, or could be maybe, only "from God", but are not "The, especially "new", Word of God", ect... And even if I would, I would consider them something "old" rather than anything "new"... Something that might have been known previously that was lost, ect...

    I think anyone who would or does, needs to seriously consider if they are 100% totally and completely "delusional" or not...

    And God does not reveal anything "new" ever, but only what is old and has been already known from the beginning, but just maybe perhaps "lost" (to or down through the ages) ect...

    He has nothing new to show or tell us, what He does show us is old and is what has already been known, and has already been published and/or written already, ect... and must come from that, ect... We can get what might seem to be new from that, but it is actually not ever new ever, ect...

    This is why we can use Scripture to check anything that might only seem to be "new" ect...

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019 at 8:00 AM
  8. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I would never say to anyone that my word's are God's words, especially 100% and all the time, ect... Even though I do believe I hear God and do hear from God, ect... Believe He is with me, in me, ect... Speaks through me sometimes, ect...

    But I would tell them and say to them to always check and compare what I have to say to and against Scripture for themselves, always, ect...

    And if it does not line up with Scripture, then reject it outright please...

    And encourage them to please let me know about it also, or as well, ect...

    So, I can correct my error or mistake if there is one, ect...

    God Bless!
     
  9. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Is this Upper and lower case 'W' in the original language or added with modern translations?

    Are you saying that the 'Word of God' is Jesus and the 'word of God' is the bible.

    What then is the Word He promises in Is 30

    20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction, yet your Teacher will not hide himself anymore, but your eyes shall see your Teacher. 21 And your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying, “This is the way, walk in it,” when you turn to the right or when you turn to the left.
     
  10. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla Well-Known Member

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    In my experience, what my separated me from being agnostic and headed towards atheism was an environment free of arguments and dogma. I was never told what to think, how to feel, or how I should approach the bible.

    If you knead the dough too much the bread will not expand as it should. It becomes tough and inedible. Micromanaging faith will create the same result.

    In its absence I found my way to God and Christ and the Holy Spirit led the way. I learned how to listen to His still small voice because I wasn’t inundated with impressions which may be incorrect.

    I was able to taste and see that the Lord is good. Not because of the pastor’s words or a well-known Christian author. But due to experiences and fruit I’d borne with Him.

    And when I look back and perceive where I stood and where He’s taking me I’m in awe. I look to Him first and His word. I take my questions and concerns to Him before flesh. I’m willing to wait and wrestle if needed until clarity arrives.

    I give no thought to church fathers or any form of legalism. It’s meaningless when trials arrive and my back is against the wall. The debates are unimportant when Satan is on the prowl. What enables me to stand and overcome is the same Spirit that led me home.

    When you steep yourself in Him and that is the reality of your days. Your question answers itself. It is only a question when you’re divided to the point where He becomes a sliver and not the whole.

    If you take a piece of bread and dip it in honey the slice is visible in some places. But if you continue to submerge it after a while its fully consumed. That’s all you see. :)
     
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  11. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member

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    nvm..
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019 at 12:45 PM
  12. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Do people personally hear His voice audibly ... I don't believe so ... now the bible does tell us there will be a time when many will prophesy ... however it will be very evident and accompanied by signs ... will be like a 2nd Pentecost and will be just before His 2nd coming and just like in the days of pentecost and there will be many many many that come to the Lord at that time.

    heresy? who are we to judge?

    Acts 2

    17‘In the last days, God says,
    I will pour out My Spirit on all people.
    Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
    your young men will see visions,
    your old men will dream dreams.

    18Even on My menservants and maidservants
    I will pour out My Spirit in those days,
    and they will prophesy.

    19I will show wonders in the heavens above
    and signs on the earth below,
    blood and fire and billows of smoke.
    20The sun will be turned to darkness,
    and the moon to blood,
    before the coming of the great and glorious Day of the Lord.

    21And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019 at 9:47 AM
  13. Mantishand

    Mantishand Member

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    Yep
     
  14. GOD Shines Forth!

    GOD Shines Forth! Member

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    Interesting thoughts! It seems easier for people to expect miraculous doings from God. The idea that He would speak in a book somehow seems more bizarre to them.

    Yet if His agent speaking is The Holy Spirit, then those words are unlike any words ever spoken/written. They have life giving information because the Author of life voiced them! And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you...Wow! Talk about enlightenment and living words!

    Most of what people "hear" from God these days sounds like vain claptrap to me. It never approaches the mysterious power of Scripture. Yet people clamor for the second-hand. Why, when the Author of life has disclosed so much of Himself...in a book (that most own but few read and adore, since Satan works overtime to prevent that).
     
  15. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    IF someone claims to be inspired by God, aren't they claiming to receive God's (Holy) Spirit? Isn't it the Spirit which moved the Prophets to speak by inspiration?
     
  16. GreekOrthodox

    GreekOrthodox Psalti Chrysostom

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    In John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" we translate the Greek Logos as "Word". Logos carries some philosophical connotations in Greek that became incorporated in early rabbinical thought as noted by Philo of Alexandria. Heraclitus in the 400s BC, defined logos as a principle of order, "all entities come to be in accordance with this Logos". Logos is the root of logic for us today. So this is where we capitalize "Word of God" so as to provide context that we are discussing Jesus as the "Word of God", as opposed to the scriptures as "γραφάς" graphas, or writings.
     
  17. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Beautifully written and I agree 100%

    The reason I raised the thread was that our attitude to scripture and 'The Word' seems to lurk under our discussions and divide folks on the forum more than anything else.
     
  18. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    OK so hearing God is outside your experience, but you show Grace not to judge those who claim such experiences. :)
     
  19. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the big 'W' was not in the original text but is added to contextualise the passage.

    One of the issues I raise here is that the big 'W' is applied, by some, to the Scripture.

    This can be confusing because then folks are tempted to present the Truth from Scripture with a rational mind without is being spiritually discerned - it happens on the forum all the time.

    For this reason it would be better not to refer to the Scripture as the 'Word of God" because although it is God breathed, it is only a living capital 'W' Word if the Holy Spirit inspires the hearer or the reader.
     
  20. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the compliment. It is one of many stumbling blocks. It isn’t the Word that’s the issue. It’s the old man who’s in the way. With doctrines, precepts, and all the rest.

    But Paul said, “For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.”

    That’s the solution. :)
     
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