The word "Dispensation"

[BABerean2]

Some have come to call the present time period a "Dispensation".
The word is also used this way in some of the older commentaries, even before the time of John Darby. During April of 1776 Pastor Jonas Clark gave an eloquent sermon to his congregation near the anniversary of the first shots that began the American Revolutionary War. On that day some of the mothers, wives, sons and daughters of those men who had been a part of Colonel John Parker's militia, were sitting in his congregation. Some of Parker's men who had been killed by the British were buried in the church's graveyard. Pastor Clark used the word Dispensation during his sermon.

What did Pastor Clark mean in the use of this word "dispensation"?

When did this dispensation start and when will it end?

It is no doubt a Bible term...

1Co_9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

Eph_1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Eph_3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Col_1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;


G3622

οἰκονομία
oikonomia
oy-kon-om-ee'-ah
From G3623; administration (of a household or estate); specifically a (religious) "economy": - dispensation, stewardship.


The Greek word "oikonomia" refers to an "administration" or an "economy".

It therefore can refer to the act of administering as in a pharmacist dispensing medication and could also be used as a time period when the pharmacist dispensed the medication.

In this thread we will attempt to identify the point in time when the Old Covenant Dispensation ended and the New Covenant Dispensation began.


Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Mar_15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.


We will also bring in the question of when the present Dispensation will end during this discussion.

Please avoid the name-calling...

 

[ac28]

BAB2,

As soon as I get off here, I am going to officially ignore you (User Panel/People you ignore/ Type in BABrean2/Save changes). That way, nothing you have ever written or copy and pasted will appear to me. If you had, even once, said anything of value, I wouldn't do this. We have to get rid of you, in order to have any continuity on this forum.

Who are you preaching to? Newbies in the Word that you must try to help escape from the "scourge" of dispensationalism? If you're trying to convert dispensationalists, it's a fool's errand. Any yearling dispensationalist (Ac2, Ac9, or Ac28) can immediately see by your writing that they are far superior to you in their understanding. You'll never change them and I pray that any searcher will also see through your extremely incomplete, false Christianity.

It would be nice if the other dispensationalists also chose to "ignore" you. I guarantee that you won't be missed. I ignored you earlier, as a test, and it was amazing how much the air smelled fresher. You just wonderfully disappeared, at least to me. In fact, since you had the only post of this thread, the whole thread disappeared. Wonderful!

My opinion is you are a nice guy, a person who loves Christ, and a Bible believer. Your problem is that you have been misinformed down the line and, as a result, you live in a tiny, false, sealed box, with no escape, it seems.

I pray that you see the truth. I feel blessed that I'll never see your name or your false doctrine again.

Bye, brother.

 

[MWood]

This Dispensation started the instant that Jesus gave up the Ghost. At that instant Jesus became a Blessing to the world just as God had promised to Abram 2500 years early. That is when all the peoples of the world, Jew and Gentile alike, received the forgiveness of sin, redemption, reconciliation, sanctification. Justification came when Jesus was resurrected from the grave.

None of this was known by anyone until it was revealed to the Apostle Paul. When he started preaching the Gospel of the Grace of God, then this well kept secret was made known to all men. This is where this dispensation of this Age of Grace began.

 

[BABerean2]

This Dispensation started the instant that Jesus gave up the Ghost. At that instant Jesus became a Blessing to the world just as God had promised to Abram 2500 years early. That is when all the peoples of the world, Jew and Gentile alike, received the forgiveness of sin, redemption, reconciliation, sanctification. Justification came when Jesus was resurrected from the grave.

None of this was known by anyone until it was revealed to the Apostle Paul. When he started preaching the Gospel of the Grace of God, then this well kept secret was made known to all men. This is where this dispensation of this Age of Grace began.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.)

Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
(Hos 2:23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.)
Rom 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

It was not a mystery to Hosea, or Jeremiah, or Daniel...

.

 

[MWood]

All that you have provided has nothing to do with the mystery that was revealed to Paul. That was another place, another time, another dispensation, and several different situations all mixed up in a pot and brought to a boil and can't make heads or tails of any of it. Now that is what is called a mulligan.

 

[BABerean2]

All that you have provided has nothing to do with the mystery that was revealed to Paul. That was another place, another time, another dispensation, and several different situations all mixed up in a pot and brought to a boil and can't make heads or tails of any of it. Now that is what is called a mulligan.

It was Peter who first took the Gospel to the Gentiles.

That was most certainly not a "mulligan".

The change in the Dispensation happened on the day of the Cross, when Christ said "It is finished".

The veil in the temple was torn in half, showing that the Old Covenant system of sacrifices was now "obsolete".

The New Covenant was in effect when Paul stood by and held the coats of those who stoned Stephen.

Your attempts to divide the Gospel, does not match what is written in the text.

.

 

[MWood]

It was Peter who first took the Gospel to the Gentiles.

That was most certainly not a "mulligan".

The change in the Dispensation happened on the day of the Cross, when Christ said "It is finished".

The veil in the temple was torn in half, showing that the Old Covenant system of sacrifices was now "obsolete".

The New Covenant was in effect when Paul stood by and held the coats of those who stoned Stephen.

Your attempts to divide the Gospel, does not match what is written in the text.

.

There are two New Covenants mentioned in the Bible, which New Covenant are you referring to.

 

[BABerean2]

There are two New Covenants mentioned in the Bible, which New Covenant are you referring to.

Based on this logic, since there are four Gospels, Jesus was crucified four times and rose from the dead four times.

Since the death of Christ fulfilled the New Covenant, based on your logic, there would be at least four New Covenants...

.

 

[MWood]

You started this thread for an argument. There are two things that I don't argue, religion and politics.
I'm through.

 

[BABerean2]

You started this thread for an argument. There are two things that I don't argue, religion and politics.
I'm through.

I started this thread to show that the present Dispensation started at the Cross with the words "It is finished.", which fulfilled the sacrifice of the New Covenant.

Based on Hebrews 12:24 and Hebrews 13:20 this covenant fulfilled by Christ is, "everlasting", which means there will not be another after it.


Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

.

 

[Job8]

I started this thread to show that the present Dispensation started at the Cross with the words "It is finished.", which fulfilled the sacrifice of the New Covenant.

The start of the present Dispensation -- the Church Age -- really began at Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit was poured out upon all those who believed, and they received the gift of the Holy Ghost. "It is finished" signified (a) the end of the Old Covenant and (b) the completion of the atoning work of Christ as the Lamb of God. Yet is was not until the destruction of the Temple that the Old Covenant really came to an end.

The New Covenant is the Everlasting Covenant, and all of God's relationship with men will be governed by this Covenant for eternity. But there are more dispensations to come.

 

[BABerean2]

"It is finished" signified (a) the end of the Old Covenant and (b) the completion of the atoning work of Christ as the Lamb of God. Yet is was not until the destruction of the Temple that the Old Covenant really came to an end.

Based on this logic the Sinai Covenant system was still in effect until 70AD, producing two systems of sacrifice working at the same time.
However, Hebrews chapter 8 makes it clear that the New Covenant had made the Old Covenant "obsolete".


Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


Christ was the final sacrifice for sin.

Heb_10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;


There will be no more Dispensations on this rotten sin cursed world.
Any attempts to renew animal sacrifices in a rebuilt temple would be useless.

It is finished.

Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
.

 

[Job8]

Based on this logic the Sinai Covenant system was still in effect until 70AD, producing two systems of sacrifice working at the same time. However, Hebrews chapter 8 makes it clear that the New Covenant had made the Old Covenant "obsolete".

As far as God was concerned, the Old Covenant became obsolete the day Christ died. However, the Jews continued with their ceremonies and practices until 70 AD, and Paul even recognizes this in the book of Hebrews: We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. (Heb 13:10). As Matthew Henry says: He proves that this servile adherence to the Jewish state is a bar to the privileges of the gospel altar.

 

[BABerean2]

As far as God was concerned, the Old Covenant became obsolete the day Christ died. However, the Jews continued with their ceremonies and practices until 70 AD, and Paul even recognizes this in the book of Hebrews: We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. (Heb 13:10). As Matthew Henry says: He proves that this servile adherence to the Jewish state is a bar to the privileges of the gospel altar.

And God is the only one whose opinion counts.

Some are attempting to rebuild a Jewish temple in Jerusalem and renew animal sacrifices.

It will be one more rejection of God's Son, if this is done.

Mat_21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Heb_10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

.

 

[BABerean2]

The modern evangelical Church has done a miserable job of sharing the Gospel with the Jewish people.
Many of us act as if they are somehow still under the Sinai covenant that is now "obsolete", based on Hebrews 8:13.
Sadly, most of them are just as lost as I once was.

Thank God for men like this one who wants to share the Good News with his own people.

Based on Jeremiah 31:31-34, a New Covenant was to come to replace the covenant they had broken.
The Messiah spoke of this New Covenant at the Last Supper. Matthew 26:28

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[Biblewriter]

The OP of this thread is simply avoiding a critical issue. It is true that some usage of the word "dispensation" before the time of J. N. Darby, or of Edward Irving, or of Manuel Lacunza, proves nothing.

But Dispensationalisn is the doctrine that from time to time, God changes the way that He deals with mankind. And Dispensationalism calls the period during which each of these different methods of dealing with mankind took place a "dispensation."

So, while an occurence of the word "dispensation" before the time of J. N. Darby, or of Edward Irving, or of Manuel Lacunza, is indeed meaningless. A use of that word as a description of a period of time in which God dealt with mankind in a particular way before the time of J. N. Darby, or of Edward Irving, or of Manuel Lacunza, is a plain example of Dispensationalism being taught before that time. And is therefore conclusive proof that the doctrine did not originate with any of these men.

 

[BABerean2]

So, while an occurence of the word "dispensation" before the time of J. N. Darby, or of Edward Irving, or of Manuel Lacunza, is indeed meaningless. A use of that word as a description of a period of time in which God dealt with mankind in a particular way before the time of J. N. Darby, or of Edward Irving, or of Manuel Lacunza, is a plain example of Dispensationalism being taught before that time. And is therefore conclusive proof that the doctrine did not originate with any of these men.

The modern version of Dispensational Theology claims there will be a future 7 year period when modern Jews will come to faith outside of the "everlasting" New Covenant Church.


Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.



Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament (covenant), which is shed for many for the remission of sins.



Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,



Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

There is no future plan of salvation outside of the New Covenant Church, found in God's Word.

.

 

[Biblewriter]

Actually, we teach that Israel will come to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ after He returns. We say this because the scriptures plainly declare it.


"The LORD will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not become greater than that of Judah. In that day the LORD will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the LORD before them. It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of Shimei by itself, and their wives by themselves; all the families that remain, every family by itself, and their wives by themselves." Zechariah 12:7-14

 

[BABerean2]

Actually, we teach that Israel will come to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ after He returns. We say this because the scriptures plainly declare it.


"The LORD will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not become greater than that of Judah. In that day the LORD will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the LORD before them. It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of Shimei by itself, and their wives by themselves; all the families that remain, every family by itself, and their wives by themselves." Zechariah 12:7-14

You are saying that modern Jews can wait until the day of Christ's Second Coming to accept Him.
However, this conflicts with the parable of the virgins when Christ said they must be ready before He comes.

You are saying people will be saved dependent on bloodline at His return.
However, Christ broke down the middle-wall of separation between all races of people at Calvary.
Dispensationalists also believe that some Gentiles will also come to faith during the tribulation period.


There was a day when the spirit was poured out on the men of Judea and the men of Israel and they did mourn for the One they had pierced just a few weeks before. Can you imagine what it would be like to realize that just a few weeks before you have called out for the Son of God to be crucified?

All of those people will be there with us to welcome Him back at His Second Coming when He returns in flaming fire, taking vengeance on those who do not know God.

Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?



There will be no Second Chances at His Second Coming, based on the text below.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Modern Jews need to hear the Gospel now.
The New Covenant Church of Christ is now the only way of salvation.

"The Forbidden Chapter" in the Tanakh
Isaiah chapter 53

Why do their rabbis no longer cover this chapter in the Tanakh?

 

[Biblewriter]

I am not saying, but pointing out the fact, that the scriptures explicitly state that Israel will finally trust Jesus after He returns.

And I am not saying, but pointing out the fact, that the scriptures explicitly say that Israel will be restored, both to their Lord and as a nation.

When you deny that these things will indeed happen, you are denying explicitly stated scripture.

Your problem is that you attach greater authority to your interpretation of the meanings of a relatively small number of New Testament passages, than to the explicit statements of a far greater number of Old Testament passages. In doing this, you are ignoring the fact that all of these scriptures were inspired by the same Holy Spirit of a God that never changes and never lies.