The Women Who Ought to Remain Silent in the Assemblies of God

cgaviria

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There are a few scriptures that instruct certain women to keep silent in the assemblies of God, here is the first verse,
[34] Let your women in the assemblies be quiet! for it is not committed to their care to speak, but let them be submitted! as also the law says. [35] But if any shall want to learn, in the house, let them ask their own husbands; for it is shameful for women to speak in the assembly.
(I Corinthians 14:34-35 [ABP])

And here is the second verse,
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
(I Timothy 2:11-15 [ABP])

Now, the Greek word for woman is "gyne", which could mean a woman or more specifically a wife. The usage of the word to mean a wife can be seen in this verse,
Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?" (Matthew 22:28 [NIV])

Now, all women are not wives, since any woman that is unmarried is therefore not a wife, she is a "single woman", as we call it today's day. And if you look closely at the I Corinthians 14:35, you will notice that these women being instructed to "ask their own husbands" are women that are married, because a married woman has a husband. The same applies to the 1 Timothy passage where it says "women will be saved through childbearing", only a woman who is married to a husband will child-bear. Therefore, these passages of women to keep quiet, are not referring to all women, it is referring to wives specifically. Wives are the women that are to keep quiet in the assemblies of God, not all women, or rather, not single women. Why? Because it is the wife's husband that should assume the authority between them two, which is why the passage in 1 Timothy says, "assume authority over a man". This verse isn't saying that women shouldn't be teachers over men, it is talking about wives having authority over their man, their husband, and should thus not teach, because it is her husband the one that should teach, and not his wife.

When a woman becomes married, she comes under submission to her husband,
And to the woman he said, In multiplying I will multiply your distresses, and your moanings. In distresses you will bear children, and to your husband your submission, and he will dominate you. (Genesis 3:16 [ABP])

When a woman comes under the submission of marriage, it is then that she must be quiet. However, if a woman is unmarried, she may indeed speak in the assemblies of God, because she is not under submission to need to be quiet. Even so, marriage will indeed become a former thing, as it is said here,
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. (Matthew 22:30 [NIV])

So does it not stand to reason that if all people that are resurrected will all as be as angels one and the same, not being of the gender of a man or a woman, that indeed God has given just as equal ability for an unmarried woman to teach just as a man? This is why we are encouraged to not marry, because marriage will soon become a former thing, and there will be no distinction between a man or a women in the resurrection, and here is where Paul encourages all who are unmarried or widowed to remain single,
[7] For I want all men to be as even myself; but each has his own favor from God; one so, and another so. [8] But I say to the unmarried and to the widows; it is good for them if they remain as even I.
(I Corinthians 7:7-8 [ABP])

In "to be as myself", Paul was referring to him being unmarried. And even in this verse we also see the same thing concerning marriage,
But concerning what you wrote to me; It is good for a man to not touch a woman. (I Corinthians 7:1 [ABP])

A man comes to "touch" a woman when he marries a woman. This also coincides with this saying of Jesus,
[11] And he said to them, Not all have space for this word, but to the ones whom it has been given. [12] For there are eunuchs, the ones who from the mother's belly were procreated thus; and there are eunuchs, the ones who were made eunuchs by men; and there are eunuchs, the ones who made eunuchs of themselves on account of the kingdom of the heavens. The one being able to have space, let him have space!
(Matthew 19:11-12 [ABP])

Now, men and women are not commanded to not marry, but instead, encouraged to not marry, as it is better to remain single to give full devotion and service to the Lord. Yet if a woman does indeed marry and becomes a wife, she must then come under submission and keep quiet in the assemblies of God and not teach.

May God open your understanding. You may also view this study on my blog at http://www.wisdomofgod.co/2016/01/20/the-women-who-ought-to-remain-silent-in-the-assemblies-of-god/ .
 

timewerx

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Sounds agreeable.

That would be clever mandate from Paul if that is the case.

Women were quite discriminated under Jewish Orthodoxy then. So Paul is giving out a loophole to the problem without inciting a feminist revolution.

I would think that ultimately, equality would be the rule, married or not.
 
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Aelred of Rievaulx

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Some of my professors when studying theology were women. It was an ecumenical school and some were even Anglican priests. Needless to say they were experts in their fields and I take their opinions on theology much more seriously than I do yours.
 
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cgaviria

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Some of my professors when studying theology were women. It was an ecumenical school and some were even Anglican priests. Needless to say they were experts in their fields and I take their opinions on theology much more seriously than I do yours.

Then don't believe me, what need have I to read of your announcement that you wish not to believe me on account that you believe other people are more "certified" to understand scripture than me?
 
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Aelred of Rievaulx

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Then don't believe me, what need have I to read of your announcement that you wish not to believe me on account that you believe other people are more "certified" to understand scripture than me?
Well more in the hopes that others will read it and realise that for various reasons, not the least this sexist attitude, you're not certified at all in understanding Scripture.
 
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cgaviria

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Well more in the hopes that others will read it and realise that for various reasons, not the least this sexist attitude, you're not certified at all in understanding Scripture.

Since when was a certification the basis to be able to understand truth? Did God not reveal his truth to babes?
At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. (Matthew 11:25 [NIV])
 
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Aelred of Rievaulx

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Since when was a certification the basis to be able to understand truth? Did God not reveal his truth to babes?
God reveals God's truth to all sorts of people. Unfortunately I haven't seen God's truth in anything you've said...
 
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cgaviria

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The Catholic Church lent you your Scripture... You should show a bit more respect.

God gave us the scriptures, and most of the scriptures have existed many thousands of years even before the catholic church came into existence. So I do indeed thank God for his word, not the catholic church, who has even been known to burn scriptures in the past on the basis that they did not want anyone reading the scriptures themselves.
 
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Aelred of Rievaulx

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God gave us the scriptures, and most of the scriptures have existed many thousands of years even before the catholic church came into existence. So I do indeed thank God for his word, not the catholic church, who has even been known to burn scriptures in the past on the basis that they did not want anyone reading the scriptures themselves.
I think it would have been better for you to simply have learned what Christianity is rather than read the Bible for yourself, you clearly interpret it within a theologically dubious paradigm.
 
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cgaviria

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I think it would have been better for you to simply have learned what Christianity is rather than read the Bible for yourself, you clearly interpret it within a theologically dubious paradigm.

If I am wrong then let the scriptures prove that I am wrong. Instead of giving me your heresay reasonings on what you think, quote me scriptures proving I am wrong, and let us see who has stronger wisdom in accordance to scripture to refute the other. But if indeed you have no scriptures, then you really have little ground to speak from, except your own pretenses, which you accuse me of having, yet it is you that does indeed have them. I opened this topic with scriptures proving what I am saying concerning wives being quiet, yet all you have done in each response is attack me and my credentials, and provide no scriptures whatsoever as to why I would be wrong on this matter. Do you even realize your own pattern of error?
 
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Aelred of Rievaulx

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Instead of giving me your heresay reasonings on what you think, quote me scriptures proving I am wrong, and let us see who has stronger wisdom in accordance to scripture to refute the other. But if indeed you have no scriptures
I'll only cite one Scripture and it's Matthew 7:6, it's really only for my own reflection rather than in response to you. I don't think I want to have this sort of a conversation with you as I don't think you know how to read the Bible properly.
 
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cgaviria

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I'll only cite one Scripture and it's Matthew 7:6, it's really only for my own reflection rather than in response to you. I don't think I want to have this sort of a conversation with you as I don't think you know how to read the Bible properly.

I am not offended by you calling me a dog nor a pig, as even Jesus Christ was called a glutton and a drunkard by those who perceived themselves wiser than he. Carry on in your own ways, one day all things will indeed come to the light, and you will indeed be forced to bow your knee to the Lord. I have nothing further to say to you.
 
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JackRT

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When we look at the bible, both old and new testaments, we realize that they emerged from an extremely patriarchal society. This society devalued women to the extent that they were not even considered to be persons before the law. Not only were they devalued but they were in many ways considered to be of inferior intellect and of a carnal nature even moreso than the male. Today we know that women are the intellectual and spiritual equals of men in every respect except physical size and strength. Jesus himslf seems to gave been largely gender blind in that he numbered women among his disciples and apostles and even close friends. Paul, at first, appears conflicted until we realize that the pastoral epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) were actually written pseudonomously some 60 years after Paul's death. This was more than enough time for patriarchy to once again take charge. In my personal opinion patriarchy just might be one of the ugliest evils that humanity has ever inflicted on itself. It still exerts its malevolent influence in some circles even today. As a Christian I am convinced that we should make every effort to ensure the full equality of women in every aspect of the life of our churches and in society at large.
 
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Aelred of Rievaulx

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Today we know that women are the intellectual and spiritual equals of men in every respect except physical size and strength. Jesus himslf seems to gave been largely gender blind in that he numbered women among his disciples and apostles and even close friends. Paul, at first, appears conflicted until we realize that the pastoral epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) were actually written pseudonomously some 60 years after Paul's death. This was more than enough time for patriarchy to once again take charge.
I don't really buy this sort of historiography and textual analysis. It altogether reeks of trying to "save" earliest Christianity from being patriarchal and is in fact the same romanticism that has been incorporated into most historical Jesus studies which have attempted at producing an altogether sanitised and very modern version of Jesus. My take on Paul was that his attitude to women was very much the same as that of any first century Palestinian Jew, a rather benign form of patriarchy wherein men were de facto better and women second place. Needless to say that this isn't any where near as sexist as Philo of Alexandria's attitude to women but St Paul was no De Beauvoir or Wollstonecraft. Men and women are equal, of equal spiritual value and worth, both capable of the heights of intelligence and depths of depravity this isn't written in the Bible though and it needn't have to be in order to be believed.
 
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cgaviria

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When we look at the bible, both old and new testaments, we realize that they emerged from an extremely patriarchal society. This society devalued women to the extent that they were not even considered to be persons before the law. Not only were they devalued but they were in many ways considered to be of inferior intellect and of a carnal nature even moreso than the male. Today we know that women are the intellectual and spiritual equals of men in every respect except physical size and strength. Jesus himslf seems to gave been largely gender blind in that he numbered women among his disciples and apostles and even close friends. Paul, at first, appears conflicted until we realize that the pastoral epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) were actually written pseudonomously some 60 years after Paul's death. This was more than enough time for patriarchy to once again take charge. In my personal opinion patriarchy just might be one of the ugliest evils that humanity has ever inflicted on itself. It still exerts its malevolent influence in some circles even today. As a Christian I am convinced that we should make every effort to ensure the full equality of women in every aspect of the life of our churches and in society at large.

Women and men are equal, but a wife and a husband are not. Any man that teaches that a wife ought not submit to her husband is in complete and total doctrinal error.
 
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Linet Kihonge

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Women and men are equal, but a wife and a husband are not. Any man that teaches that a wife ought not submit to her husband is in complete and total doctrinal error.

Hi :D high 5! lol, I don't know why find it hilarious but all the same, the thing for submission, comes automatically once a person is declared a wife to someone. Sadly, whether we think the scripture is gender biased or not what's written is written. Total freedom is only when one remains single otherwise, silence is what will save some marriages because, as it is written.

Proverbs 21:9, "Better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife."

So, silence in my contemporary opinion is giving "your husband" space. Not necessarily being a person that can be trampled on because of Ephesians 5:21 (Instruction to Christian Households).

Here is another brainer,

1 Corinthians 11:4-6, "4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. 6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.

LITERALLY SPEAKING, all women should be wearing headscarves when praying or prophesying (I think I have landed myself into serious REBUKING but just saying)

(The only people who seem do this are nuns/sisters/mothers)
 
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cgaviria

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Hi :D high 5! lol, I don't know why find it hilarious but all the same, the thing for submission, comes automatically once a person is declared a wife to someone. Sadly, whether we think the scripture is gender biased or not what's written is written. Total freedom is only when one remains single otherwise, silence is what will save some marriages because, as it is written.

Proverbs 21:9, "Better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife."

So, silence in my contemporary opinion is giving "your husband" space. Not necessarily being a person that can be trampled on because of Ephesians 5:21 (Instruction to Christian Households).

Here is another brainer,

1 Corinthians 11:4-6, "4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. 6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.

LITERALLY SPEAKING, all women should be wearing headscarves when praying or prophesying (I think I have landed myself into serious REBUKING but just saying)

(The only people who seem do this are nuns/sisters/mothers)

Actually, it is also wives only that should wear head coverings. As a head covering is the sign that a woman has come under submission to a man or is about to come under submission to a man, such as a woman being engaged or betrothed. You can see this evident here,
Rebekah also looked up and saw Isaac. She got down from her camel and asked the servant, "Who is that man in the field coming to meet us?" "He is my master," the servant answered. So she took her veil and covered herself. (Genesis 24:64-65)

She covered herself once she saw Isaac, who was to become her husband.
 
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