The Woman in the Wilderness - Revelation 12

[TribulationSigns]

Scripture interprets itself so when the two prophets are called in and given 42 months also broken down into days with a very specific charge that it will not rain during the days of their prophecy. I can see a 3 1/2 year literal drought which is what the text describes and is consistent with Elijah being one of the two witnesses as James notes. Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months.

Again the old testament types are linked with end times fulfillment for Jesus promised that Elijah would come again.[/QUOTE]

No, Elijah and his literal "3-1/2 years" of famine were only an EXAMPLE, a token, of a spiritual period for the Church. It does not mean that we will expect a man called "Elijah" and to have 3.1/2 years of physical famines all over again. You totally missed the point that Christ was talking about because you were indoctrinated that everything must be understood literally... just like scribes of Old!

Again the old testament types are linked with end times fulfillment for Jesus promised that Elijah would come again.

Christ said that Elijah ALREADY came through John the Baptist!
Of course... "IF YOU RECEIVE IT!"

Matthew 17:11-13
[11] And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
[12] But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
[13] Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Luke 1:13-17
[13] But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
[14] And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
[15] For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
[16] And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
[17] And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

I have not been indoctrinated lol I study on my own and have come to my own conclusions i share much ground with those who take a literal approach. In the verse I mentioned that the interpretation that 42 months = 1260 days and that it won't rain for that period does not take an indoctrination to believe it means what it says. When comparing to Elijah and Jesus promise that indeed he will come and then noting that it did not rain for 42 months in his day and suggesting this passage is literal is the obvious interpretation that anyone could come to. It is your extraction that requires much gymnastics to hold to and that forces a myriad of other passages to not mean what they say to try to keep your interpretation going. There is a passage about not being led into every wind of doctrine that comes to mind and you more than likely did not come up with this on your own but have been led to it. No matter if you are saved and born again we can sit down and talk it over when it is all 20 20 in the rear view mirror.

 

[shilohsfoal]

42 months the amies of the gentiles tread Jerusalem under foot.

Revelation 11:2 KJV: But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Revelation 11:3 KJV: And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 11:4 KJV: These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Revelation 11:5 KJV: And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Fire comes out of thier mouths.

I have a nephew who has fire come out of his mouth to destroy his enemies.Hes in the army.They can also make it not rain.Its called cloud seeding .The idea is tomake the clouds drop thier rain before they are ready.Then the area you want to make sure is dry stays dry.

The military of the king of the north has this ability as do many others.
The US has been working on such a thing for decades.
Operation Popeye - Wikipedia

 

[Douggg]

No, Elijah and his literal "3-1/2 years" of famine were only an EXAMPLE, a token, of a spiritual period for the Church. It does not mean that we will expect a man called "Elijah" and to have 3.1/2 years of physical famines all over again. You totally missed the point that Christ was talking about because you were indoctrinated that everything must be understood literally... just like scribes of Old!



Christ said that Elijah ALREADY came through John the Baptist!
Of course... "IF YOU RECEIVE IT!"

Matthew 17:11-13
[11] And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
[12] But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
[13] Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Luke 1:13-17
[13] But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
[14] And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
[15] For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
[16] And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
[17] And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Revelation is not a parable.

 

[Douggg]

Fire comes out of thier mouths.

I have a nephew who has fire come out of his mouth to destroy his enemies.Hes in the army.They can also make it not rain.Its called cloud seeding .The idea is tomake the clouds drop thier rain before they are ready.Then the area you want to make sure is dry stays dry.

The military of the king of the north has this ability as do many others.
The US has been working on such a thing for decades.
Operation Popeye - Wikipedia

The two witnesses will be two literal men, who prophesy - on God's behalf, Who brings them back to life and calls them up to heaven, as their enemies watch. Has nothing to do with the two witnesses being in the military - but God's direct authority given to the two witnesses to prophesy on His behalf. The military could be enemies to the two witnesses at trying to get rid of them, though.


11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

 

[JLB777]

Revelation 12:6

• "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."

The woman represents the congregation of Israel, started with Old Testament Israel and end with the New Testament Israel. The 1260 days the woman is fed in the wilderness is symbolically and is pointing us to the skia or shadow how the Old Testament nation of Israel had to survive in the wilderness nourished of God before they entered the promised land. So the New Testament Church has to follow that exact same path. After this woman (the congregation of Israel) was persecuted by Satan and brought forth Christ who was caught up to the throne to reign, she fled from the Judaizers into the wilderness (wasteland, Desert or desolate Place), which is a portrait of the barrenness of the Nations/Gentiles. This because they don't know God, and not part of the commonwealth of Israel, and are a people without spiritual bread and water. It is WHERE God had prepared a safe place for the congregation of Israel because it was His will that the wilderness or desert bring forth abundantly, just as Israel once did. God had made a place in this wilderness or desert that would be fruitful for the woman.

John 6:31

• "Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat."

That word translated "desert" means a barren place without water or food. In other word, the world was once without Gospel. And God had to miraculously feed His children bread from heaven and Water from a rock, signifying Salvation. As I said, all God's miracles are signs signifying some Spiritual truth. This word translated "desert" is the exact same word translated "wilderness" in Revelation chapter 12. It signifies a barren place void of the bread and water of Christ, which the Gentiles/Nations were.

Revelation 12:14

• "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."

Again, not a literal woman in literal heaven given literal wings, not Virgin Mary, and not Nation Israel, but signifying the people of God representing the congregation of Israel and the are protected by God (Exodus 19:4; Isaiah 40:31) in this Desert place in the wilderness, and is there nourished of God. God prepared a place for her away from the face of the Serpent Satan (Satan was ast down and bound), which indicates God assured it was there the congregation of Israel could not be hurt, and receive power of God (Holy Spirit) to bring the elect Gentiles/Nations out of the darkness wherein Satan held them in strong delusion.

Revelation 20:3

• "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

Satan was cast down and was bound, but not from literal heaven and not with literal chains, but with spiritual chains. Spiritually, Satan was restrained from deceiving the world so that Christ could spoil the people from the world through the Church. God is using this woman, the New Covenant Congregation of Israel, to reach the Nations/Gentiles in the wilderness (world) during this millennial period that they are not deceived, but instead made fellow heirs of the commonwealth of Israel.

Ephesians 2:11-12

• "Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
• That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:"

For example, it was for THIS reason that Satan had to bound FIRST in order for this millennial period reign (1000 years) of Christ to be established and went forth into the world, so that the elect of these Nations/Gentiles in the wilderness would be set free of their deceiving. The words translated Nations and Gentiles are the exact same word! God was not talking about political nations here!

The preparation of this place is synonymous with Christ giving power to the apostles that they couldn't be hurt by Serpents and Scorpions in the wilderness. In other words, during this period, Satan is bound from preventing the church from going forth as two witnesses evangelizing the nations that they are not deceived. Yet God warned that AFTER this millennial reign of the church in the wilderness, when all the Israel of God are sealed, Satan would be then loosed and the Nations will be deceived once again (Revelation 20:7-8) ushering in the great tribulation period for the woman for a short season prior to Second Coming.

That is basically what Revelation 12 is all about.

And who are the rest of her offspring?


17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 12:17


JLB

 

[shilohsfoal]

Daniel 11:31 "His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.

42 months fire proceeds out of thier mouths to devour thier enemies.They can make fire come down,out of heaven in the sight of man.

 

[shilohsfoal]

The two witnesses will be two literal men, who prophesy - on God's behalf, Who brings them back to life and calls them up to heaven, as their enemies watch. Has nothing to do with the two witnesses being in the military - but God's direct authority given to the two witnesses to prophesy on His behalf. The military could be enemies to the two witnesses at trying to get rid of them, though.


11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

The military that ooccupies Jerusalem for 42 months are of "Christian" nations.
The beast that ascends outof thebottomless pittand kills them is from Islamic nations.The Muslims shall celebrate for three days becsusr they had destroyed them and have taken control of Jerusalem from them.After three days ,the day of the Lord.He will fight against those nations who have come against Jerusalem.

 

[Douggg]

The military that ooccupies Jerusalem for 42 months are of "Christian" nations.
The beast that ascends outof thebottomless pittand kills them is from Islamic nations.The Muslims shall celebrate for three days becsusr they had destroyed them and have taken control of Jerusalem from them.After three days ,the day of the Lord.He will fight against those nations who have come against Jerusalem.

If you said western nations of the EU, and perhaps the U.S and Canada with them, then perhaps I could agree who will be occupying Jerusalem for the 42 months.

But those nations will be the core military of the beast. They certainly will not be supporting the two witnesses, but opposed to them.

At the end of the 7 years, those nations of the west, will battle with the military coming from the south, north, east. Before allying together to make war on Jesus.

Somehow you are trying to put together a Muslim as being the beast? At that time, it will not be Christian nations versus Muslim nations like today.

 

[shilohsfoal]

If you said western nations of the EU, and perhaps the U.S and Canada with them, then perhaps I could agree who will be occupying Jerusalem for the 42 months.

But those nations will be the core military of the beast. They certainly will not be supporting the two witnesses, but opposed to them.

At the end of the 7 years, those nations of the west, will battle with the military coming from the south, north, east. Before allying together to make war on Jesus.

Somehow you are trying to put together a Muslim as being the beast? At that time, it will not be Christian nations versus Muslim nations like today.

The beast is a kingdom divided into 11 countries.1small country which is Israel and ten Muslim countries.The ten Muslims countries hate the harlot which is Jerusalem and her Judaism,children.Those ten nations will attack Jerusalem killing the two witnesses as well,as everyone else who doesn't escape.

Nebachanezars divided kingdom.

 

[Douggg]

The beast is a kingdom divided into 11 countries.1small country which is Israel and ten Muslim countries.

11 countries - based on what? 10 of which are muslim - based on what? Israel as one of the 11 countries - based on what?

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

If you said western nations of the EU, and perhaps the U.S and Canada with them, then perhaps I could agree who will be occupying Jerusalem for the 42 months.

But those nations will be the core military of the beast. They certainly will not be supporting the two witnesses, but opposed to them.

At the end of the 7 years, those nations of the west, will battle with the military coming from the south, north, east. Before allying together to make war on Jesus.

Somehow you are trying to put together a Muslim as being the beast? At that time, it will not be Christian nations versus Muslim nations like today.

the nations are all under the AC for the final 42 months those peace occupiers could be wearing UN uniforms and represent all nations. At the end the kings of the east rebel to go up against AC but they encounter Jesus instead.

 

[shilohsfoal]

11 countries - based on what? 10 of which are muslim - based on what? Israel as one of the 11 countries - based on what?

Based on the horns of the beast.
Daniel 7:24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings.

First there were ten came up ,then the little horn came up.He humiliated three of those and took control of the seven hilled city of Jerusalem in 1967.

 

[Douggg]

the nations are all under the AC for the final 42 months those peace occupiers could be wearing UN uniforms and represent all nations. At the end the kings of the east rebel to go up against AC but they encounter Jesus instead.

Hi Brian, I don't think for the last 42 month they will be "peace occupiers" (the peace and safety saying stage will be over, and the sudden destruction stage begin) - but "enforcers" because the person will have become the beast, worshiped as god. And the ten kings and their kingdom will have bought into his claim.

I do think that initially at the beginning to the seven years, that same group of ten kings will be occupying the middle east, namely the oil rich countries in particular, under the auspicies of "peace keepers" in the region following Gog/Magog.

At the time the person is the beast, everyone in those armies of the kingdom of the ten kings will have the 666, the name, or the mark. Which they will be enforcing - but not enforcing peace, but obedience to the beast.

I don't think it will be the U.N. for two reasons (1) near the end of the 7 years, there has to be the battles of Daniel 11, involiving armies from the north, south, east, west (implied). (2) Right now a big portion of the U.N. is made up of Muslim nations. Basically, a good portion of those nations will be destroyed during Gog/Magog - which will lead to the end of the U.N. - as it currently is, at least.

Following Gog/Magog, the world geopolitical map is going to drastically change. The world will think that it has entered the messianic age of peace and safety - with the Jews thinking the little horn person is their messiah and he will be anointed the King of Israel - which that is what officially makes the person the "Antichrist".

 

[Douggg]

Based on the horns of the beast.
Daniel 7:24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings.

The ten kings emerge from the fourth empire in the text. And since the little horn comes up among them, he would also be of the fourth empire.

I am not seeing your rationale of a kingdom of ten muslim countries and Israel. What are the ten muslim countries making up the fourth kingdom, in your view?

First there were ten came up ,then the little horn came up.He humiliated three of those and took control of the seven hilled city of Jerusalem in 1967.

Who are you saying is the little horn?

 

[David Kent]

Revelation is not a parable.

It is told by signs or figures.

• Revelation 1:1 ¶ The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Signified = Told by signs or figures.

So the literal interpretation is understanding the signs or figures given. When they are explained it is to show us how to interpret them in other passages. Here are a couple from Revelation 1.

• 20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

The sign of stars. Angels of the seven churches.I take the angels of the seven churches to be the pastors or leaders of the seven churches. There is an example in Genesis of stars being people.

The sign of the candlesticks. The candlesticks are churches so we can see in Revelation 11, candlesticks are churches. Seven representing to complete church, two representing the true church in the dark ages. Two being the lowest number of witnesses allowed under the law.

During the tribulation of the church in the dark ages, there was always a minimum witness.

 

[David Kent]

Scripture interprets itself so when the two prophets are called in and given 42 months also broken down into days with a very specific charge that it will not rain during the days of their prophecy. I can see a 3 1/2 year literal drought which is what the text describes and is consistent with Elijah being one of the two witnesses as James notes. Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. Again the old testament types are linked with end times fulfillment for Jesus promised that Elijah would come again.

Revelation 1:1, tells us that the book was signified, that means told by signs.

You are not following the signs. The two witnesses were also 2 Candlesticks. Revelation 1:20 tells us that candlesticks are churches. Seven represents the entire church, and the two represents the church in the tribulation of the church in the dark ages. Two witnesses being the lowest allowed under the law. The church kept up a witness through the dark ages of papal persecution and inquisition.

 

[David Kent]

11 countries - based on what? 10 of which are muslim - based on what? Israel as one of the 11 countries - based on what?

Based on imagination.

 

[David Kent]

The ten kings emerge from the fourth empire in the text. And since the little horn comes up among them, he would also be of the fourth empire.

The Roman Empire.

The papacy came from among the 10 kings who overthrew Rome.

That is the little horn.

 

[TribulationSigns]

And who are the rest of her offspring?


17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 12:17

The children of covenant Israel, our mother! First, the Jewish elect of the old testament and then Gentile Elect of the new testament after the cross. Here in verse 17, after christ had ascended into heaven, "the rest of her offspring" God was taking about were the Christians of the new testament period.