The Witness of the Apostles Refutes Calvinism, Predestinationism

Status
Not open for further replies.

drstevej

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."
In Memory Of
Mar 18, 2003
47,493
27,114
74
Lousianna
✟1,001,611.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Upvote 0

Arcoe

Do This And Live!
Sep 29, 2012
2,051
11
Texas
✟2,356.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
These guys don't seem to be bothered a great deal by what the Scriptures teach do they ?

I will ask anyone here - did you cast away all your transgressions so you make for yourself a new heart? (Ezekiel 18:31)

I want to see if anyone seems to be bothered by what Scripture teaches.
 
Upvote 0

nobdysfool

The original! Accept no substitutes!
Feb 23, 2003
15,018
1,006
Home, except when I'm not....
✟21,146.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
I have in my possession the writings of the Synod of Dordrecht also known as "The Canons of Dort."

I probably know more about Calvinism than you do.

The Canons of Dort are the Calvinist other Bible. I don't know why they need writings other than the Bible. Other religions need the same thing. The Mormons need the book of Mormon. Catholics need the catechism.

What I am saying in my opening post is that the witness of the apostles refutes Calvinism. The apostles did not think like Calvinist nor did they act like Calvinist. They were running all over Asia preaching the Gospel to who ever would hear it. They did not teach predestinationism. THEY PREACHED THE GOSPEL.


Calvinists preach the Gospel to everyone. We don't pick and choose. We don't base our preaching on predestination, as you falsely accuse. The most active and successful evangelistic efforts in the world today are Calvinist-based. We take the Great Commission seriously.

What you're saying in your opening post is only your personal opinion. It carries no weight beyond that. We all know you hate Calvinism, and there is reason to believe that the hatred goes beyond the doctrine and has been directed at individuals. We've seen it here. And we're watching you. Count on that.
 
Upvote 0
E

Eric Hibbert

Guest
Satan wants you to believe that evangelizing is a waste of time because God has already predetermined who is going to be saved and who is going to be lost, so why bother? This is Satans lie to make the "Glorious Gospel" of Jesus Christ of no effect and to make you an uneffective Christian.

The apostles did not teach predestination. There is not one scripture in the Bible that says God has pre-determined who is saved and who is lost. What it does say is... "Whosoever that calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved," Romans 10:13.

The apostle Paul spent over 15 years of his life and traveled over 10,000 miles on foot, by donkey, by boat, to take the Gospel to the heathen Gentiles that had never even heard about Jesus. You would have much trouble convincing Paul that all of his effort to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ was for nothing because God had already pre-determined who would be saved and who would be lost.

The book of Acts and the epistles describe Paul's three missionary journeys around the north shore of the Mediterranean Sea. If God had not been with Paul and the other apostles they would have perished. Paul and the other apostles were beaten, stoned, threatened and at one time were left for dead.

All of the apostles except for John died violent deaths for the sake of the Gospel. None of them believed that they had been predestinated to salvation. They believed like Paul that salvation was by grace through through faith to all who called upon the name of the Lord to be saved.

If they believed that predestination was the way people were saved, why go out into the world and risk your neck for some heathen Gentile, after all God had already pre-determined who was going to be saved and who was going to be lost. "let's just stay here in Jerusalem where it is warm and comfy, God will saved them."

You seem to have a very strawman-ish view of predestination. If predestination were what you're claiming it is, I would be its harshest critic.

I probably know more about Calvinism than you do.

Who knows? Maybe you do. But that doesn't mean you're not wrong.

Incidentally, the Bible warns about pride and says that it comes before a fall, so you might want to watch the crowing about your knowledge. The more you brag about how knowlegable you are, the more embarrasing it's going to be when you're proven wrong. Trust me, I've learned this lesson the hard way.

The Canons of Dort are the Calvinist other Bible.

Really? That's odd. I've been a Calvinst for about twenty-five years and have never heard anyone refer to them that way or ascribe the same authority to them. Do you have a source for this claim?
 
Upvote 0

nobdysfool

The original! Accept no substitutes!
Feb 23, 2003
15,018
1,006
Home, except when I'm not....
✟21,146.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
You seem to have a very strawman-ish view of predestination. If predestination were what you're claiming it is, I would be its harshest critic.

:thumbsup:

Who knows? Maybe you do. But that doesn't mean you're not wrong.

Incidentally, the Bible warns about pride and says that it comes before a fall, so you might want to watch the crowing about your knowledge. The more you brag about how knowlegable you are, the more embarrasing it's going to be when you're proven wrong. Trust me, I've learned this lesson the hard way.

:thumbsup:

Really? That's odd. I've been a Calvinst for about twenty-five years and have never heard anyone refer to them that way or ascribe the same authority to them. Do you have a source for this claim?

The source's initials are RP....
 
Upvote 0

Arcoe

Do This And Live!
Sep 29, 2012
2,051
11
Texas
✟2,356.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Really? That's odd. I've been a Calvinst for about twenty-five years and have never heard anyone refer to them that way or ascribe the same authority to them. Do you have a source for this claim?

I have heard it called the Gospel by the Calvinist persuasion.
 
Upvote 0
R

Robert Pate

Guest
Calvinists preach the Gospel to everyone. We don't pick and choose. We don't base our preaching on predestination, as you falsely accuse. The most active and successful evangelistic efforts in the world today are Calvinist-based. We take the Great Commission seriously.

What you're saying in your opening post is only your personal opinion. It carries no weight beyond that. We all know you hate Calvinism, and there is reason to believe that the hatred goes beyond the doctrine and has been directed at individuals. We've seen it here. And we're watching you. Count on that.


The main theme of Calvinism is not the Gospel.

The main theme of Calvinism is Calvinism. It is your Gospel. Your Gospel is that you have been predestinated to be saved. Who needs the Gospel if you have already been predestinated to be saved? This is why Calvinist are more into their religion than they are the Gospel.

THIS WAS NOT THE WITNESS OF THE APOSTLES.

The witness of the apostles was the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the salvation of lost souls, The Gospel. On the day of Pentecost Peter preached the Gospel and 3000 souls were saved, Acts 2:41. The Gospel is the means by which people come to know Christ as their savior. Paul said, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith (The Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

All through the book of Acts people are coming to Christ by hearing and believing the Gospel. The word "predestinated" is not to be found in the book of Acts.

My purpose on this Forum is to reveal the wonderful work that God has done for us in Jesus Christ. Calvinism clouds that work. I don't hate Calvinist.
 
Upvote 0
R

Robert Pate

Guest
You seem to have a very strawman-ish view of predestination. If predestination were what you're claiming it is, I would be its harshest critic.



Who knows? Maybe you do. But that doesn't mean you're not wrong.

Incidentally, the Bible warns about pride and says that it comes before a fall, so you might want to watch the crowing about your knowledge. The more you brag about how knowlegable you are, the more embarrasing it's going to be when you're proven wrong. Trust me, I've learned this lesson the hard way.



Really? That's odd. I've been a Calvinst for about twenty-five years and have never heard anyone refer to them that way or ascribe the same authority to them. Do you have a source for this claim?


Why do Calvinist need the Canons of Dort?

I have found that many Calvinist see the Canons of Dort as the final authority. Just like the Catholics see The Council of Trent as their final authority.

Most religions that refer to writings other than the Bible are in error and many times contradict the Bible.
 
Upvote 0

nobdysfool

The original! Accept no substitutes!
Feb 23, 2003
15,018
1,006
Home, except when I'm not....
✟21,146.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
The main theme of Calvinism is not the Gospel.

The main theme of Calvinism is Calvinism. It is your Gospel. Your Gospel is that you have been predestinated to be saved. Who needs the Gospel if you have already been predestinated to be saved? This is why Calvinist are more into their religion than they are the Gospel.

Falsehoods.

THIS WAS NOT THE WITNESS OF THE APOSTLES.
The witness of the apostles was the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the salvation of lost souls, The Gospel. On the day of Pentecost Peter preached the Gospel and 3000 souls were saved, Acts 2:41. The Gospel is the means by which people come to know Christ as their savior. Paul said, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith (The Gospel) Galatians 3:2.
Which is exactly what we preach to the lost (and all are lost unless they believe)

All through the book of Acts people are coming to Christ by hearing and believing the Gospel. The word "predestinated" is not to be found in the book of Acts.
It doesn't have to be, for predestination to be true. Predestination is not what is preached by Calvinists. That is a straw man of your own creation. Besides, arguments from silence are inherently weak. We preach the gospel of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God, for the salvation of those who hear and believe.

My purpose on this Forum is to reveal the wonderful work that God has done for us in Jesus Christ. Calvinism clouds that work. I don't hate Calvinist.
If you confined yourself to that purpose, that would be fine. However, you continually take potshots at Calvinism and Calvinists, and bear false witness about them. That is NOT fine.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Dec 29, 2012
159
3
✟15,299.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I also have a copy of the Canons of Dort, but they are not my Bible. I am not sure why you addressed these remarks to me, but just so you know, I have spent the past 42 years in the pastoral ministry seeking to evangelize the lost and shepherd God's people. You may know the Calvinism better than I, but, judging from your remarks here, you don't know much about the Sceiptures
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

drstevej

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."
In Memory Of
Mar 18, 2003
47,493
27,114
74
Lousianna
✟1,001,611.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Upvote 0

drstevej

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."
In Memory Of
Mar 18, 2003
47,493
27,114
74
Lousianna
✟1,001,611.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I have found that many Calvinist see the Canons of Dort as the final authority. Just like the Catholics see The Council of Trent as their final authority.

Calvinists are Sola whereas Catholics equate Scripture and Tradition. So you either do not understand Calvinism or are twisting the facts.

If you know many Calvinists who do this name ten (cite references):

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
 
Upvote 0
R

Robert Pate

Guest
Falsehoods.

Which is exactly what we preach to the lost (and all are lost unless they believe)

It doesn't have to be, for predestination to be true. Predestination is not what is preached by Calvinists. That is a straw man of your own creation. Besides, arguments from silence are inherently weak. We preach the gospel of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God, for the salvation of those who hear and believe.

If you confined yourself to that purpose, that would be fine. However, you continually take potshots at Calvinism and Calvinists, and bear false witness about them. That is NOT fine.


Sorry, but the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ calls all doctrines and religions into question.

Jesus claims to be the savior of the whole world and the provider of salvation for all men, not just some.

Paul said, "God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation," 2 Corinthians 5:19.

The word of reconciliation is not Calvinism. It is the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ.
 
Upvote 0
R

Robert Pate

Guest
Calvinists are Sola whereas Catholics equate Scripture and Tradition. So you either do not understand Calvinism or are twisting the facts.

If you know many Calvinists who do this name ten (cite references):

1 If Calvinist are Sola why do they need the Canons of Dort? Sola means scripture alone. It is not scripture alone, it is scripture plus the Canons of Dort. They have added to to Bible. Just like the other religions that have other writings have added to the Bible.
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10

This is my only reason.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Dec 29, 2012
159
3
✟15,299.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Everyone who becomes a believer casts away his sins in the sense that he repents of his sins. It is God's published desire that all sinners do so. Since He is holy, he cannot but desire that all his creatures also be holy. The problem is that sinners in a state of sinful nature don't share that desire.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Arcoe

Do This And Live!
Sep 29, 2012
2,051
11
Texas
✟2,356.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Everyone who becomes a believer casts away his sins in the sense that he repents of his sins. It is God's published desire that all sinners do so. Since He is holy, he cannot but desire that all his creatures also be holy. The problem is that sinners in a state of sinful nature don't share that desire.

I think you are on to something. It is after man repents and forsakes his sins that he is regenerated, or makes themselves a new heart and spirit.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.